Feminism does NOT equal misandry! It means equality, plain simple! I get that the feminazis that claim to be "feminists'' are annoying as hell, but they are just ignorant, stubborn misandrists claiming to be feminists. The feminazis remind me of this guy in high school who was obviously black, but identified himself as Spanish because a small fraction of his blood came from Spain. The reason why women are so fuckin comfortable today (being able vote, to get educated, get jobs) is because of feminism. That said, we still have a long way to go for true equality.

I know how frustating it can be when some uninformed feminist or pseudo-feminist is maligning the Disney Princesses or Disney in general to the point they make it seem like its the (main or only) cause of all gender/racial/body figure problems. Trust me, I known. But putting aside the fact that a few - and not all - feminists pass unfair judgement on Disney based on pre-conceived, inaccurate notions or in vague childhood memories, they do fight for a lot of good cases. Society - and I'm not just talking about American society here - is still sexist, and we need to do something about it.

I don't think it's much of a problem in this particular club. Beside some of the things on the wall and a misunderstanding of the term "feminism", I don't really see any negativity toward "true" feminists.

Uuuggghhhhhh......don't even care anymore, anything on the Internet with the word feminism in it always either ends up being an argument or annoying

There's a lot of strawmanning of feminism (i.e, using the craziest examples to make broad statements about what feminists think or believe) going on here. And it's like whenever we talk about feminism in this group it's almost always tied to someone doing something we're not supposed to like; nobody here ever uses that word in a positive context. Like i said before it's basically a four-letter word in this group and it makes for a hostile environment for those us who do identify as feminists.

We neither have any of those crazy feminist Princess haters, nor do we have any of those idiots who buy into Frozen's and Brave's lib-service feminism without reflecting on it first. At least, I have never really encountered either group here. I never had any problem with being a feminist or discussing feminism with anyone here.

Or did I miss something?

I don't care about it.

So pointing out the fake feminism in Brave and Frozen is wrong? And letting the so-called-feminists of today ( who clearly hate all of the Disney Princesses save "their own brand of princess," i.e., Merida, Anna, and Elsa), get away with disparaging former characters because "they declare them unfit and weak?" That's okay? And making every male character either a fool, an evil person, or a sarcastic loner is how to view the opposite sex? Because that's what is going on here... But that's NOT what feminism is-- in either case. So I don't see how talking about the fake feminist trope is wrong, because it is at the core of why Disney is now in conflict with itself, and is trying to erase part of its legacy because of the popularity of a single movie.


Feminism in its true definition is about the equality of men and women. It is not about maligning other female characters or the opposite sex.

I completely agree with UnholyNoise and uploaded900.

What the heck? Where is this happening?

^^^ there is no "fake feminism" in either of those movies; it's just a viewpoint you don't agree with. feminism is a spectrum. you can have whatever feelings you want about the DPs and it says literally nothing about how feminist you are.

and in fact both brave and frozen do a lot more to level the playing field between male and female leads than anything that came before them, except for PATF -- the women in those movies are treated like actual people, not the one-dimensional morality devices that a lot of the renaissance DPs were. they're given flaws and their screwups are called out in-universe as legitimate flaws and you can actually see how their bad decisions cause things to fall apart around them.

there are still a lot of things wrong with their movies (i'm beginning to think the classic DPs are the least problematic, and they're also the least pushy with their message), but people need to stop using the moderns to grind their axe against "feminists." especially while letting the renaissance DPs slide for much worse.

As a feminist myself I haven't seen anything happen on this spot that I have found insulting. Sometimes we just got to take a step back and remember we are on a fun site sharing our love for animated princesses not a debate team.

@Unholynoise: Brenda Chapman, who wrote part of Brave, said she did it as a "middle finger" to all the princesses who came before Merida. And as for Frozen, it's only your opinion that the Renaissance characters are " one-dimensional morality devices." But in Frozen, there is a definite vibe that all the prior Disney princesses are "inferior." I'm reacting to both the "inferiority vibe" and the "middle finger declaration" which both movies tout as their "strategy" to bring in viewers and comprise a fanbase. There is a " hijacking of feminism" going on here, just as Uploaded pointed out. I don't see how the Moderns have leveled the playing field, and made the female characters more "legit and real." The Moderns just make the same number of egregious mistakes as prior characters did. I do see how the word "feminism" has been used to disparage former characters and former movies, though. And that should be stopped, in my opinion.

so freakin' annoying

it's like we can't even have feminist characters anymore, without people hating on them

I'll own up to this.

@Unholynoise Again, the only princesses I see that are guilty of what you're talking about are Belle, Poca and a modern DP, Rapunzel. And even Poca and Punz actually do get called out on their bullshit, alittle bit. Ariel is just as flawed as say Beast or Kristoff, Jasmine's not the main character and even she at least feels guilty about her mistakes. Of course no need to defend Mulan. I find Anna and Elsa more one dimensional than any Renaissance DP, they're walking marketing strategies in my opinion. Renaissance has it's problems and I do think we're subconsciously harsher toward anything that came after Mulan because that movie's basically the pinnacle of feminism. But my problem with Frozen, and to lesser extent Brave, is that the movie's clearly trying to tout itself as feminist and unlike Mulan, it does a meh job at it. Kinda like how some movies try to come off Oscar worthy but they end getting nothing at award season. I never had a problem with the portrayal of men in Frozen, all characters in Frozen, male and female, are pitiful. I just have a problem with how the movie's trying to be "modern", "feminist", "revolutionary", "subversive" and all these other buzz words and they have to debunk previous princesses to do it.

I didn't know this was going on in the club. I may have made comments about feminism but there are some feminists that bash Disney Princesses & it upsets me. People say Brave & Frozen are the first princess movies to have strong female characters. That is totally false! Disney has been making strong female characters for years.

Read these articles:

I posted this one before: link

link

I don't think this particular place has generally been bad about it. I know a few of us, myself definitely included, used to hold a poor opinion of modern feminists, but speaking for myself, all of it with regards to the DPs had to do with how hateful so many people who identify as feminists are while entirely failing to judge any of them past a very shallow level. Saying things like Belle fell in love with her abuser, the Classics are all weak damsels with no personality, Ariel sold her soul for a guy, condemning them for liking romance or being girly, or heaven forbid, having flaws. and the ones who play favorites with the moderns are even worse imo, like what was already mentioned about Frozen and Brave (though Mulan and Belle have had pretty bad fandoms at times too).

I'm always really happy to see feminists who love the DPs though. And yes, people do straw man them sometimes, but I think fanpop isn't anywhere as hysterical towards the word feminist as Facebook, Reddit, youtube, or even parts of Tumblr.