Episode 5x08 Discussion - After आप See It

posted by HumbleQueen

"The Hollow Queen"

Is anybody else feeling like the season just began and all of a sudden we’re looking at the end? I mean, only six to go counting today? You’re kidding me. So we just crossed the midway point and lots of folks are disappointed with how it’s gone. Me? I’ve enjoyed most episodes (excluding number three which left me VERY underwhelmed.) But I have to say I “enjoyed” all the rest, with number six leaving me breathless. SO. I know, I know, the season over half gone and not one legitimate Arwen kiss. THAT is the thing that has us scratching our head and wondering where all this is going to lead. So the buzz is that most folks that come around here are mostly looking आगे to this episode so they can see the thirty सेकंड्स tacked on the end. Am I right? LOL. Well, let’s just take this one as a step towards what has to be better days.

”With Gwen continuing her role as Morgana’s agent, there is plenty at stake and this is a generally और serious endeavour. Her betrayal is all the और shocking as she still clearly enjoys her husband’s affections and it makes us wonder how their relationship can ever survive this once the truth is revealed.”

This little tidbit from the Cultbox review didn’t sit right for some of us. Let’s come back after and give our opinions on that one. How will WE see this and of course we know if he finds out she’s simply been a victim of Morgana, certainly their relationship will survive. Confession: I’m one of those weirdos who enjoyed the Arwen chemistry last week. Like I said, at least we’re seeing what the relationship is like with no spell on her part. I mean, she’s trying to act normal with him and what we're seeing is “normal” behavior for Mr. and Mrs. Pendragon when all is well. So that’s how I’m coping. I understand why for some of आप the whole thing was ruined because of the evil! Gwen thing, but try to think of it that way; maybe it’ll help just a little. :)

Well, Laters, alligators. Can’t wait to hear all the usual good interpretations from the Arwenites at this place. आप guys have it together.

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EPaws Agreed HQ it has to be more than a kiss to sort it, because TRUST ME....THEY BEEN KISSIN A LOT...

kbrand5333 I agree with Bonne about Merlin. He should have gotten off his damn ass and DONE SOMETHING TO HELP GWEN as soon as he knew something was wrong. That being said, I am liking Merlin when he actually acts like an adult. He's almost kinda sexy when he's being manly. Also, I know that the A/G interaction is how they would "normally" behave, but I just cannot get past the fact that Gwen is just playacting. I'm not exactly sure why. Could be my ire at the Merlin PTB that cannot seem to show us good, honest affection between them. Could be that with each scene, I feel SO BAD for Arthur that she is deceiving him. I think it's mostly that. The deception just gets under my skin. I cannot pretend that Gwen is not enchanted when I watch their scenes. I just can't do it. I knew Daegal was up to no good from moment 1. The dressing scene between Gaius and Arthur did not amuse me at all. Perhaps I'm just crabby today, but this episode didn't do anything for me. Basically, to summarize: Bring on next week.

azwarrior Finally watched the episode. First, yes I enjoyed the "arwen" moments. B/A always make me feel like Im intruding....LOL! Second, (don't throw rotten tomatoes) while Angel is doing a brilliant job.... I can't help but not like the character of Gwen right now. I think for ME, I just want to see her have some kind of inner struggle w/herself. That would show that their is still some humanity in her. Yet we get this cold ruthless shell of a person who shows no remorse for anything she has done. Yes, yes I know she is enchanted. Third, can we get the "real" Gwen back....I miss her. I don't want anymore of badass Gwen being vengeful...I want BADASS Gwen when she's fighting for her people.!

merlinfreaks I really enjoyed this episode!!!! I just miss the old gwen and I'm looking forward to her being back to normal but I hope that she still gets some scenes when she is back to her old self!!!!! Next weeks episode looks so good!!!!!!

lailastar Can we please have our Gwen back.....the one that went into the dark tower and never came out.....yeah, that one....the one THAT LOVES ARTHUR WITH ALL HER HEART!!!!!!! I am feeling so sorry for Arthur right now. Some will disagree but we only needed one episode of all this conniving and plotting. I think it would have been nice to dedicate one episode showing the peoples queen doing something nice for her people, like starting a charity, collecting alms, feeding, clothing her people. That would have balance things off, instead of two full episodes of this. The only difference I saw in this episode is they included some humor to buffer the evil acts, which was not done last week.

Lucerne28 Lailastar, agree that only one episode of evil Gwen was really needed. This is over kill. Gwen is morgana's brain washed puppet, we get it. Move on already. IMO this whole thing is a stalling technique of the show runners to prevent a magical reveal. All we learned in this episode was who was holding Morgana and baby dragon prisoner; and that Merlin for whatever reason thinks Arthur would sentence him to death if he found out about his secret. Sad really that after all these years merlin still feels like this. Speaking of Merlin, episode 7 he brings Arthur back from the brink of death, and in this episode he can not even heal his own leg wound. WTF?

kbrand5333 ^totally re healing. And I agree on the overkill thing as well.

EPaws Yeah the healing thing made me go WTF too?

Bonne-Bell But Merlin's injury was more than the leg wound. Morgana poisoned him. He only got the leg wound after she pushed him off the cliff. I think the poisoning weakened his power and that's why he couldn't heal himself with magic.

EPaws ^Makes sense.

sportyshuie Yay, finally watched it and i am swooning already. This is a good episode and never mind if Gwen is enchanted. That was CHEMISTRY, i tell you. Hate Gwen for being evil but you have to love her for being such an awesome actress. Angel nailed every scene in this episode, like she always does. And ... Colin, well what can i say? He was brilliant too. And though Arthur looked deliciously handsome in this episode, i think this episode belongs to Colin and Angel. And it looks like they had fun filming all their scenes together. That last look between them .... speechless. I hate the druid boy died. He was such a kind character ... at least i'm glad he was honoured at the end. The arwen scenes were ... deliciously sexy, and enchanted or not, Arwen were entertaining us. Yes, i think this was the treat for all us; to sort of apologise for the lack of arwen in the previous episodes. My fav, the first scene at their bed and the second scene where she combs his hair. And the one she dresses him. Oh, that was three scenes, hehe!! And Colin looked handsome in this episode ... handsome, not cute but handsome. Now, i just hope next one will be super awesome ...

famfan Arwen, Arwen, Arwen, O Lord help me. I downloaded the episode just so I could re-watch the Arwen scenes on repeat. In terms of the episode.. Once again I was really impressed with the flow of the episode. Once again Angel and Colin brought their A games. (Side note: Colin Morgan has grown up quite nicely....quite nicely indeed!) Loved Giaus this episode! What I hated... -Merlin+ finding out he has magic = dead What's up with that? -Though I loved the fake druid boy... Why on earth did Merlin leave Camelot? Yeah, Arthur isn't going to miss you *whatever*.... (whoever thought of this idea for getting Merlin out of Camelot needs to be fired.) -The Morgana story was heartbreaking. (I would have cried but, I kept think.... gosh after what happen to her she did worst to Gwen, how twist is she?) There were other annoying things but they all come down to bad writing. This show should have been a planned Arc like Dr. Who. It would have been so much better. O well, it's water under the bridge at this point. All in all it was a wow episode.... There is a part of me that's going to miss bad Gwen. They let Arwen be way more sexy now. I am afraid they are going to water them down or forget about them after 509.....

arthurlover7 Ok to all your (Oh Gwen would still act the same if she was not enchanted so the Arwen scenes are amazing) comments I both disagree and agree with. First off I agree because they are doing really cute Arwen snipits and scenes here and there which are amazing. But I also disagree with you because I am not sure if you viewers notice but I notice a difference in how she is acting (because of the enchantment) and how she would really act with Arthur. Because she is faking it the spark chemestry or whatever you call it is missing. And in the last episode she refused to kiss him twice (with Merlin watching (understandable but still) and putting the comb in front of his lips so he could not kiss her which I think he real Gwen would have kissed him a little then told him to get ready) So I am just curious if anyone notices a difference??

kbrand5333 I do. Especially the comb thing. Of course, we've seen so little of them together before now, so we really have nothing to compare it to. I'd just been chalking it up to the fact that I know she's deceiving Arthur and that's why it bothers me. But you're right, there were a couple things in this episode -- the comb, the part where she tightens his straps too tight -- that were kind of telling.

HumbleQueen We can't compare, arthurlover, because they didn't give us enough scenes with Arwen when she was normal, but from the little we got she is super affectionate with him, such as the scene where she kissed his forehead and stroked his hair. IMO what I was seeing was a slight difference in Arthur who was really coming on to her this episode. Seems to me she was responding to him and my guess is she would have responded same way if not under a spell. In fact, the little scene with the comb was very sensual and charming and I can't imagine her acting any different as normal Gwen. In the opening one with the bed, she did sound a little phony when she was surprised about it, but again, I rather think she would have responded happily to his advances. HOWEVER yes many of us noticed that she stopped him from kissing her twice. We're just not sure if it's because of the storyline or just the show not wanting the first kiss to be while she's evil!Gwen. Oh, Kim, I posted this before I saw yours. I don't think maybe we're on the same page with this one but I know where you're coming from.

HumbleQueen Oh. And I forgot about her pulling his straps too tight. See, I thought in that particular scene she wasn't showing the love like in the others. It was such a heated scene though. See, again, it was him who gave it this sensual air.... And the way they were wordless through most of it. The haunting music. It's my favorite scene; it's intriguing. I don't think there was anything for him to notice different in her in the other scenes but he maybe could have in this one. Oh and about this scene, it was AFTER she got upset over what the Sarrum was saying about his torture of Morgana. Am I the only one who thought it was strange that she got so upset by what the Sarrum was saying? Is it because of her love for Morgana? I didn't fully get that reaction on her part.

lailastar When Arthur and her are on screen, they allow us to see little acts from her to remind the viewers that she is not truly herself and that she is evil, she has no love for Arthur right now. For instance the pulling of the strap, she wanted to hurt him, the comb scene is her not wanting to kiss him because we are forgetting again she hates Arthur. Next episode she will tell him how much she hates him. What we see sometimes is Angel and Bradley's love for each other shining through and that is the contradiction because the viewers are getting double messages, so we forget what the storyline is all about. This Gwen has no love for Arthur and would kill him without hesitation. What I want to know is what did Morgana used on Gwen that they need more than Merlin's magic to get her back, also Mordred has magic, why don't they work together.

kbrand5333 Nanna, I do believe we are in agreement. And I fully believe that Gwen being upset for Morgana is directly because of her current "love" for her friend. And I agree. I really want to know exactly what it was that Morgana did to her. If we never get that it's the bracelet all over again. Glaring hole. And that, my friends, is why I am going on record to say that I hope they DON'T do a Merlin movie. They're just not up to it. Honestly. And if the original cast doesn't want to do it, then don't bother. I WILL not watch a Merlin movie with the wrong people playing the roles.

Bonne-Bell I think Gwen was upset for Morgana because of her current "love" for her as well. But even if that wasn't the case, I don't think that she would have liked to hear of what the Sarrum did to Morgana. Gwen has always been a caring person so even if Morgana doesn't deserve it, she still would have thought that what the Sarrum did to Morgana was cruel and harash. I just don't see her as the type of person who would not care even if the person is her enemy.

kbrand5333 ^Gwen may have a slightly different mindset about that after this week...

HumbleQueen It just didn't register right with me that she would be that way and act like the Sarrum was so cruel when she and Morgana have been using such cruel means against Arthur and Merlin. I mean how many degrees of evil are there? So they think he's more evil than Morgana has been? Kim, agree on the movie. Totally agree if they used the same writers. No way. You may be right, Lailastar. But to me if she went through those means not to kiss him because of her hatred she would have found some excuse not to sleep with him. Just sayin'. She seemed perfectly willing and delighted to head off to the bed that night so what's up with a little kiss? If that was to show she didn't want it because of the hatred, then they should have made her pretend to be sick or something and needed to sleep separately for a while for that to make sense, and not make an issue of a kiss. UNLESS a kiss on the lips turned out to be significant and it comes out later she managed to avoid that. I would fall off my chair into a coma if they were able to write something that clever. I think maybe we just saw a smidge too much of Bradley/Angel coming through then as you say. They may be great actors but sometimes can't help it, so perhaps that's why that scene with the comb came across so warm and natural. I'm sorry, there wasn't a hint of evil intent on her part. Same thing with episode 7 right after she put poison in his drink, lol.

lailastar I have an idea, we all have been wondering what Morgana did to Gwen to turn her. I think she took her soul/ her essence, what makes Gwen who she is. She is a shade of herself, she has been robbed of her soul. That is why she can kill so easily without remorse or planned the murder of Arthur and destruction of her friends without a second thought. I believe Morgana stole her soul, the reason Merlin has to consult the guardian of the underworld as shown in next weeks trailer. Remember last year Lancelot returned from the lake as a shade and could be why Gwen is in the lake, except this time is to get her soul back. Only way her soul can be returned to her. We all know the lake of Avalon has special powers. I think her soul has been in the underworld since coming out of the dark tower. The Gwen we have now is a shell of herself. Just a thought, would love to hear what anyone has to say.

HumbleQueen Hey!!! I like, Lailastar! Actually this makes a whole LOT of sense, but now that somebody thought of it, I bet they didn't do that. That would fit perfectly! I never could quite figure out the title "The Hollow Queen" actually. Can we make the 5x09 title fit with this?

famfan Quick addition here, when Morgana tells Gwen about her being held in a pit you can see the pity in Gwen. While she may not have cried for Morgana, I do believe her ordeal would have sadden Gwen even if she was not enchanted. i totally agree with HQ and the comb scene I loved it. I was cute and quite natural and seemed a very Gwen thing to do. All in all, i agree the biggest problem with this arc is lack of Arwen before the arc started. We have no way to compare, so are left wondering just what is real and what is fake. A movie oh please no!

HumbleQueen I know, the lack of Arwen in earlier episodes made it harder. Again, I'm assuming their interactions were the normal thing if Arthur was not to suspect. So I go with this is the way it is, unless there is some little something that was off that he'll mention later. Otherwise, I think we got the picture.