I had this huge वाद-विवाद with two weslah प्रेमी on youtube, and since I put so much thought into it and it's so long, I may as well post it here too.
It's clear that Wesley cared for Lilah to a certain extent, I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's just blatantly obvious that he loved फ्रेड so much. I mean, after Lilah's death his life went on much the same, but when फ्रेड died he was just completely shattered, it was so hard to watch. Even in their last conversation she says, "would आप have loved me?" and he replies, "I've loved आप since I've known you... no, I think even before that".
And फ्रेड is not boring, she's endearing and so sweet! I प्यार that about her, that she's so nice to everyone and she's always optimistic. And she's a good guy!
That's the only thing I like about Lilah, that she was there for Wesley in season 4. But I don't think फ्रेड abandoned him, she was the only one out of Team एंजल to constantly refer to him and she was always like "we should go get Wesley for help" and it was usually Charles who disagreed and stopped her. She cared for Wesley even after what he had done. And she definitely isn't a pointless character, she was often the binding force of the group, and there is not one character on the दिखाना apart from Lilah who didn't like her. After her death, everyone mourned until the end of the series.
Take Lorne for example, we had never really seen him get mad at anyone until Eve refuses to co-operate when they're looking for जवाब about how to save Fred, and he says, "Winifred Burkle once told me, after a sinful amount of Chinese खाना and in lieu of absolutely nothing, 'I think a lot of people would choose to be green. You're shade, if they had the choice.' If I hear one note, one quarter-note, that tells me आप had any involvement, these two won't even have time to kill you" I was actually shocked that he would say that, because he's *usually* very calm. It just proves that she was a binding force for the friendship of them all.
The only thing that really annoyed me about season 5 was that Cordy got such a short farewell. I mean, it was a great episode, but everyone seemed to हटाइए on wayy to quickly, especially considering Fred, who died two episodes later, seemed to get so much sympathy. But that's the crux of it, really. The heartbreaking thing was that most people had been rooting for फ्रेड and Wesley from the beginning, and they finally got together (aka फ्रेड realised her feelings for him) and she dies. Don't get me wrong, I also agree with आप when आप say आप felt sorry for wesley, don't go thinking Fresley प्रशंसकों don't care about his feelings! Wesley is my favourite character on Angel, and it was so hard for me to watch him so broken for the rest of the series.
Back to Fresley. Fred, throughout the series, has और than shown she connected with Wesley on a deeper level. "It wasn't something in आप , Wesley. It was something that was done to you." - Fred
"I don't know what kind of man I am anymore. " - Wesley
"Well, I do. You're a good man." The fact that they were never seen having a "deep" conversation just makes the events of a hole in the world और heartbreaking - they never got the chance. And if आप think Lilah knew Wesley better than anyone, here's a quote which possibly contradicts that "Come on, Wes... who knows आप better than me?" -- Lilah
"Perhaps आप don't know me as well as आप think" - Wesley
As for your saying about फ्रेड being the idealized version of who Wesley wanted to be with, I also get where you're coming from, but I have to disagree (again -- shocking, I know! xD). That may have been the case, but then explain to me why after her death this idealized version of फ्रेड didn't fade? Surely after a few episodes he'd begin to rethink his relationship with her if she really were "idealized". But no, he speaks about her as if she were the light of his life, and she was.
Also, the fact that he murdered what he thought was his own father for फ्रेड also emphasises she was और than an idealized fiction to him. आप don't go around killing your own family for someone आप don't truly care about. Well, आप don't usually go around killing your family at all-ok, I'll stop there.
"Fred: Part of आप knew. Even if आप can't admit it to yourself, part of आप knew it wasn't him.
Wesley: No. I was sure it was him. आप were there. I killed my father.
Fred: He was threatening your friends.
Wesley: He was threatening you. He pointed a gun at you, Fred... so I shot him"
Finally, if आप really do think Wesley loved Lilah और than Fred, explain why he was completely broken, even to the point of madness, after A Hole in the World?
"You can't... look at her without seeing...her body's पूर्व owner. (Wesley chuckles)
But then, what comes out of her mouth, pure unadulterated vertigo. We look so tiny to her."
Whereas there are only a few sentences devoted to his grief for Lilah, which wasn't very much grief at all if आप ask me.
Personally, there are some aspects of Lilah as a character I admire. I mean, she can stand up for herself, she's intelligent and beautiful. I just can't stand her with Wesley, and I don't think he was ever in प्यार with her.
"Don't go making और of this than it is. I'm not one of the doe-y eyed girls of एंजल Investigations. Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone.
Wesley: I wasn't thinking about आप when आप were here."
Thanks for reading, hope it made sense.
It's clear that Wesley cared for Lilah to a certain extent, I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's just blatantly obvious that he loved फ्रेड so much. I mean, after Lilah's death his life went on much the same, but when फ्रेड died he was just completely shattered, it was so hard to watch. Even in their last conversation she says, "would आप have loved me?" and he replies, "I've loved आप since I've known you... no, I think even before that".
And फ्रेड is not boring, she's endearing and so sweet! I प्यार that about her, that she's so nice to everyone and she's always optimistic. And she's a good guy!
That's the only thing I like about Lilah, that she was there for Wesley in season 4. But I don't think फ्रेड abandoned him, she was the only one out of Team एंजल to constantly refer to him and she was always like "we should go get Wesley for help" and it was usually Charles who disagreed and stopped her. She cared for Wesley even after what he had done. And she definitely isn't a pointless character, she was often the binding force of the group, and there is not one character on the दिखाना apart from Lilah who didn't like her. After her death, everyone mourned until the end of the series.
Take Lorne for example, we had never really seen him get mad at anyone until Eve refuses to co-operate when they're looking for जवाब about how to save Fred, and he says, "Winifred Burkle once told me, after a sinful amount of Chinese खाना and in lieu of absolutely nothing, 'I think a lot of people would choose to be green. You're shade, if they had the choice.' If I hear one note, one quarter-note, that tells me आप had any involvement, these two won't even have time to kill you" I was actually shocked that he would say that, because he's *usually* very calm. It just proves that she was a binding force for the friendship of them all.
The only thing that really annoyed me about season 5 was that Cordy got such a short farewell. I mean, it was a great episode, but everyone seemed to हटाइए on wayy to quickly, especially considering Fred, who died two episodes later, seemed to get so much sympathy. But that's the crux of it, really. The heartbreaking thing was that most people had been rooting for फ्रेड and Wesley from the beginning, and they finally got together (aka फ्रेड realised her feelings for him) and she dies. Don't get me wrong, I also agree with आप when आप say आप felt sorry for wesley, don't go thinking Fresley प्रशंसकों don't care about his feelings! Wesley is my favourite character on Angel, and it was so hard for me to watch him so broken for the rest of the series.
Back to Fresley. Fred, throughout the series, has और than shown she connected with Wesley on a deeper level. "It wasn't something in आप , Wesley. It was something that was done to you." - Fred
"I don't know what kind of man I am anymore. " - Wesley
"Well, I do. You're a good man." The fact that they were never seen having a "deep" conversation just makes the events of a hole in the world और heartbreaking - they never got the chance. And if आप think Lilah knew Wesley better than anyone, here's a quote which possibly contradicts that "Come on, Wes... who knows आप better than me?" -- Lilah
"Perhaps आप don't know me as well as आप think" - Wesley
As for your saying about फ्रेड being the idealized version of who Wesley wanted to be with, I also get where you're coming from, but I have to disagree (again -- shocking, I know! xD). That may have been the case, but then explain to me why after her death this idealized version of फ्रेड didn't fade? Surely after a few episodes he'd begin to rethink his relationship with her if she really were "idealized". But no, he speaks about her as if she were the light of his life, and she was.
Also, the fact that he murdered what he thought was his own father for फ्रेड also emphasises she was और than an idealized fiction to him. आप don't go around killing your own family for someone आप don't truly care about. Well, आप don't usually go around killing your family at all-ok, I'll stop there.
"Fred: Part of आप knew. Even if आप can't admit it to yourself, part of आप knew it wasn't him.
Wesley: No. I was sure it was him. आप were there. I killed my father.
Fred: He was threatening your friends.
Wesley: He was threatening you. He pointed a gun at you, Fred... so I shot him"
Finally, if आप really do think Wesley loved Lilah और than Fred, explain why he was completely broken, even to the point of madness, after A Hole in the World?
"You can't... look at her without seeing...her body's पूर्व owner. (Wesley chuckles)
But then, what comes out of her mouth, pure unadulterated vertigo. We look so tiny to her."
Whereas there are only a few sentences devoted to his grief for Lilah, which wasn't very much grief at all if आप ask me.
Personally, there are some aspects of Lilah as a character I admire. I mean, she can stand up for herself, she's intelligent and beautiful. I just can't stand her with Wesley, and I don't think he was ever in प्यार with her.
"Don't go making और of this than it is. I'm not one of the doe-y eyed girls of एंजल Investigations. Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone.
Wesley: I wasn't thinking about आप when आप were here."
Thanks for reading, hope it made sense.
