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[SPOILER ALERT: Read on only if you have already watched Sunday’s “Here’s Not Here” episode of

Answers! They came fast and furious on tonight’s “Here’s Not Here” installment of

. It was a flashback episode for Morgan, as he shared his story with the Wolf he captured in the episode two weeks ago. We learned how Morgan went from the lunatic seen in season 3’s “Clear” to the Zen-like pacifist stick-master we know now.

It turns out it was a chance encounter with a man named Eastman (John Carroll Lynch) and an introduction to aikido that transformed Morgan from a murderous lunatic into a man schooled to protect the sanctity of life. We spoke to Lennie James, the actor who plays Morgan, about the supersized 90-minute episode and the meaning behind several key moments, including Morgan’s decision to lock the door at the very end — a direct contradiction to Eastman leaving Morgan’s cell unlocked. What does it all mean? We went to James for answers. (Read through both pages for the entire interview.)

-era Morgan. What was it like getting back in that headspace?

LENNIE JAMES: I have to say it was slightly odd really, because it was getting back into the headspace and then going back even further into the rabbit hole. So that was on one level the trickiest part of the whole episode was going back to who he was at that point, and I actually had to go back and watch the episode, which is something I

do and I was quite surprised in myself that I did. But it actually did prove very, very helpful.

EP reveals there was more to that huge scene we did not see

And just to hear his voice at that point, and looking at his eyes, and I’m separated enough from it to forget that it’s me. And the rest of it was just trusting the script, and putting the clothes back on really helped. I was surprised by how much that orangey-browny patterned shirt and the track suit bottoms and knee pads helped and I just went, “Oh, right, I remember now.” And then when they start flicking blood on you, you go, “Okay, I’m back there now.” So that was very helpful.

In a way, this episode is basically like a two-man play. What was it like working with John Carroll Lynch who played Morgan’s savior and mentor Eastman?

I loved it. It was fantastic. There are few times on TV where you just have two people in a room and their characters are just allowed to play, to butt heads, to move closer together, to explore things, and it’s lovely. And when you can do it with an actor of John’s caliber and his kind of skill, it’s gravy. It’s the best day to work, because anything you throw in his direction he is more than capable of taking on board and then throwing it back even better, so it was a lovely experience.

But what was very weird about the episode is that although it feels like it’s just two guys in a room, it was arguably one of the most physically challenging episodes that I’ve certainly done on the show so far.

There’s a lot of stick play that goes in, and one of the brilliances of John Carroll Lynch is that by the time we shot episode 4 — because we shot it out of sequence — I’ve had the bow staff in my hand for a couple of months. So for a few months I’ve been with rehearsals and practice and training that I did before I got to Atlanta. It was close to if not three months I’ve been swinging the stick, and John had to come in, and he was playing Eastman who’s my mentor and the guy who taught me to use the stick, so he had to come in at a higher level than I was at, and that just meant practicing during every waking moment that he had when he wasn’t learning all of the lines that he had to learn. Because the other thing in it is that Morgan is silent in episode 4 for large parts and John is doing all the taking, so he had to take that on board as well.

We had two or three fights that we had to choreograph and work on between the two of us, one of which was an elaborate stick fight, and then there was a whole second half of the day after lunch where I spent close to seven hours just killing walkers — just running up on walkers and hitting them in different ways in different places and in different locations and then dragging them to the pyre. And there was quite a lot of running. Physically it was much more challenging than it seemed like it was going to be when you read the script.

You talk about the fight scenes and there’s that one scene where Eastman gives Morgan two choices: leave or stay on the couch. Morgan instead attacks him, gets subdued, Eastman gives him the two choices

, and instead of taking either of those, Morgan goes back into the cell. Why is that? Does he think he doesn’t deserve the couch?

For me, that’s the saddest moment of all of Morgan’s journey — in the sense that he’s given two choices, and he picks neither. I think you’re absolutely right: He’s not worth it at that point. It’s why he keeps asking Eastman to kill him. He has craved death since he lost his son. So that moment where Eastman goes, “you can do this or you can do that,” he’s simply not capable any more at that particular point. He’s defeated. He’s physically defeated because Eastman has just kicked his ass, but he’s also just emotionally defeated. And actually the only sanctuary is in a cell that has a door that isn’t even locked, but he wants that door closed. That, for me, was Morgan’s rock bottom.

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