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वाद-विवाद सवाल

DO आप AGREE

Do आप agree with these points:
1) Trans* women. Do आप think just because they have male genitalia/breasts they're any less of a woman? Why? या why not?
2) Women don't HAVE to have boobs and a vagina to be considered women.
-Give reasons for your opinions.
 Nick16 posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना
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वाद-विवाद जवाब

bri-marie said:
Women are not defined द्वारा their genitalia, and there is no such thing as a person being "more of a woman" या "less of a woman" than someone else.

Women are defined द्वारा themselves. If someone with a penis and testicles says they are a woman, they are a woman. If a person with a vagina says they are a man, then they're a man. Gender is not a static, physical attribute -- it's a fluid sociological concept.
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posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना 
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Absolutely, 100% agreed.
whiteflame55 posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना
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Then,How can we point out the difference between them द्वारा merely observing their physical appearance?
Nick16 posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना
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Both bri-marie and misanthrope have hit the right points here, but I'd like to respond to the whole gold/silver thing. Humans aren't minerals, and gender identity has nothing to do with physical appearance. Sex does. Sex is used to define what someone is biologically. Gender is, as bri-marie said, a social construct.
whiteflame55 posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना
retrolove83 said:
yes they do
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posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना 
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...yes they do what?
bri-marie posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना
whiteflame55 said:
It depends on how आप define what a woman is. Is being a woman a result of sexual characteristics? Is it a result of certain hormone levels? या is it an identity intrinsic to the person that goes beyond physical manifestations?

Women who go through transgender surgeries are trying to make what they look like on the outside mirror how they feel on the inside. They don't perceive themselves as being the right sex - their gender identity doesn't match what they look like. So they change those physical characteristics, they get hormone injections, and their mentality stays the same. They, for all intensive purposes, are a sterile man now.

I think the way this सवाल is phrased perceives the situation as different. They're becoming "less of a woman" rather than a man. The point of getting these surgeries is to change sexes, not to become less of one. My view is that when they make this decision and go through with it, they are no longer women.

The सेकंड point is separate from the first. It equates two specific physical characteristics with sexual identity. I'd say neither breasts nor vagina are required for someone to be considered a woman, though they are major sex characteristics of women. If a woman doesn't have those things and still retains the gender identity of a woman, they can be considered a woman. It goes beyond those characteristics.

The way these two points interact is strange to me. Women undergoing transgender surgeries don't want to be a woman anymore. They're spurning that portion of their identity in favor of another. To say that they're still women after getting that surgery degrades their efforts, and forces them to stick with the sex they were दिया at birth. I think the wider community can change its perception of someone willing to go to this extent.
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posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना 
hetalianstella said:
Firstly, there is no true definition to what is masculine and feminine. The only definition is what lies in society's boundaries. When an infant male is born, most likely he is expected to be what society defines as "masculine", and is raised off of that. The same with females. If a male child wants to wear dresses, it shows he has remained mostly unaffected द्वारा what society preaches to him. Odds are the majority of parents would refuse to buy their son a dress, and then go on to push "masculinity" further on the child. What specifically about a dress makes it "womanly"? A simple piece of clothing. Why does someone who wears one automatically और या less of a woman या man? Why do we let a piece of clothing categorize us when it comes to gender? It's ridiculous. If that was my child, I wouldn't hesitate to buy him that dress if it would make him happy.~
Yes, men and women have separate sets of genitalia defining what sex they are scientifically. But genitalia exists for reproduction, how exactly does that control anything else, especially one's mind set? Take these body parts away and what are आप left with? आप have that person's personality, how they act and what they feel. If body parts control how a person acts, then what about hermaphrodite people? Should they act with an equal mix of what society thinks is masculine and feminine simply because they were born with both male and female organs? या because of what gender they look और like? No. They should act, feel, think, and define themselves as whatever they wish just like every other person on Earth. If आप say you're a woman या man, then that's what आप are regardless of organs. And it is not anyone else's business या right but your own to control that.
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posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना 
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Great post, definitely agree with आप here, hetalianstella.
whiteflame55 posted एक साल  से अधिक पुराना
cassie-1-2-3 said:
For me, आप are defined द्वारा your chromosomes. Nothing more, nothing less.

If an XY wants to express themselves in a femenine way, then that's completely fine, but I will not consider them a female, regardless of their clothes, hormones, hair, attitude, या whatever.

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