I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to judge them or look down upon them or be rude to them just because of their sexual orientation.

I think it's wrong and I will not tolerate it, but will pray for them at the same time.

my best friend is bisexuall and she gets put down all the time by people who think its gross.... well ya know what ..STFU, they just love someone of the same sex get over it!
she has tried to committee suicide b4 because one day a group of girls picked on her for being bi... god she is the nicest person too ! its terrible >.<

God didn't make Adam a male mate. That's why he made Eve.

Yup. It wasn't Adam and Steve.

I believe that homosexuality is wrong but that doesn't mean the person is terrible. God loves them too. You should treat them with love.

I don't think it's natural. I think it's a choice they make, not that they were born that way. And I don't know whether it's actually wrong or not. As far as I know, it would be a sin of conscience. I think it might be against the Bible... (like in Sodom and Gamorah)... I just don't really know what I think.

Even though I disagree with the decision, I will still treat them equally.

See, here's my issue. You can say you don't agree with what LGBT people do, or the "choices" they make, but those outside of the community often fail to understand that sexuality isn't about actions or choices but about personality and identity. By disagreeing with what they do, you against who they are as human beings.

For example, consider it from the other perspective. Identifying as heterosexual, you have probably never felt attracted to someone of the same sex, ever, which means you have probably never considered it possible to fall in love with someone of the same sex. So you find yourself having a crush on someone of the opposite sex, and you have all of these feelings and emotions that you can't control. If someone told you to stop crushing on that person, you couldn't flip it off like a switch. It's not something you've chosen, but something, rather, that's chosen you, that's telling you that you were meant to be with that other person.

Let's assume that this story has a happy ending, and your crush is also secretly in love with you. One day, you confess your feelings for each other, and you have a successful courtship, get married, and consummate the marriage on your wedding night. You have found the one you're meant to be with, and you have never been happier.

Now imagine someone coming up to you, looking at your relationship from a stranger's perspective (one who does not know you, your life, or your relationship for that matter) and saying, "Oh, no, you don't know what you're doing, you two were never meant to be together. You made the wrong choice."

And you're thinking, "Choice? I had no choice. I fell in love. I had no more choice than Juliet or Isolde or Thisbe." And you're thinking, "What do you mean we weren't meant to be together? How do you know? How can you tell me how I feel about this person?" And you're thinking, "Don't know what I'm doing? I'm making myself happy. I would be lost without this person, we lead a good life together. How can you say I don't know what I'm doing?"

And then, this stranger says to you, "That's OK, though. Even though you've done all these wrong things, made these mistakes, and made the wrong choices, I don't judge you as a person, just your actions. I'm sure you're a great person."

Now, consider all the good times you and your spouse shared together. Consider how much a part of you s/he is. Consider your whole life, your celebrity crushes, gossiping/talking to your friends about who you were dating or wanted to date, seeing your spouse for that first time, and slowly falling in love with him/her.

I understand that Christians love (or are supposed to love) everyone, even sinners, and "love the sinner, hate the sin," and all that. But the thing about the LGBTQIA community is that you are judging who they are, not what they do. Even if they never acted on any romantic or sexual feelings in their lives and die bitter, cold and alone, they're still gay. There are some who claim that it's OK to be gay, so long as you never act on those feelings, which is in line with the "disagree with what they do." But to ask someone not to act on matters of the heart, to hold their faith and their spiritual wellbeing hostage until they adhere to your rules is nothing short of torture.

And you may say, "They aren't my rules, they're God's rules." Except that they aren't, see, or at least, not definitively. I know several serious Christians who don't believe that God is against gays, and they have accurate, adequate theological support behind their argument.

I went off on a rant here. I recognize that everyone here means well, and that sexuality wouldn't end anyone's friendships or anything. I just wanted to be clear, that sexuality isn't something you do, it's a part of you. And you can't help it.

Cinder: I agree, with that.

It's been pretty much proven that sexuality isn't a choice. Try and convince yourselves that it is, Christians, and you won't succeed. I'm a Christian myself, and I don't think it is wrong and I have some legit arguments. Here's one:

For one, the passages in Leviticus where it forbids homosexuality also forbids shellfish, tattoos, using pigskin (football, anyone?), and a ton of other things that we do everyday!

If you're LGBT and in the Christian community, don't lie to yourself. And if you're straight, don't hate.

There is this Dutch expression that is in English:

"the best sailor stands on the land(de beste stuurman staat aan wal)"

it mocks with the people who think they know it better than the people in the situation. I don't know what I would do if I was a lesbian or bi-sexual because I'm straight. So I'm not going to say if it's right or wrong. They don't call us sick for dating the people we want, right? People who are against homosexuality/bisexuality are discriminating.

I don't mind gay people in general, but I am against homosexuality. The Bible says it's wrong and I follow what the Bible says. Look up: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Leviticus 18:22, and Romans 1:26-27.
Not only that, I don't believe it's natural at all.

I am not sure.

The Bible says it's a sin... But heres what I don't get.

Lying is a sin. But you don't see people protesting about lying.

No sin is worse than the other.

God doesn't hate the people, he hates the sins we do.

I don't understand why it's a sin though. They're the same as heterosexuals, except for the fact that they are attracted to the same or both sexes. They're people and children of God just like all other Christians and Jews or whoever.

Thats why you need to still love the person. I get really frustrated when i try to express my views and people tell me that i hate gay people which is so not true they are God's children as well. and even if they cant help it, its still wrong. its stated multiple times in the Bible. Maybe one can prove that the Leviticus verse is outdated but the other ones arent.

And here is the other thing, if we start picking apart the Bible and saying that homosexuality is ok then we can start making the argument that maybe other things that the Bible says are wrong are ok too. its a principle thing; the Bible is holy and correct. whatever it says goes and we are supposed to follow that....

i know my opinion is still unpopular. but thats what i believe.

But people in my family are gay. I can't possibly hate them. I don't want to go against, the Bible nor do I want to go against gays. Something tells me that God may not approve of the 'homosexuality being wrong verses' in the Bible. He loves them, and the people who think its wrong are just plained homophobes. I know the Bible is God's word but that part of it, not others though, may have been misinterpreted. It's legal to love isn't it?

@tellymaster:

doesn't the bible also say you should love the other people for who they are? gay people don't "do" anything besides living! plus, the bible might not even be correct. it's translated from a dead language plus maybe the translater misinterpreted it or maybe we are.

I do not agree with their choices, but I'm not going to look down on them because of that.

I would just like to say that I love Cinders' rant.

These people usually don't choose their sexual orientation. It's just the way They were borned.

I fail to see the view point of those who don't like gay people. I think that they're closed minded and that it's not at all Christian of them (Only speaking in the practise that they look down on them or think that they're stupid or wrong to do what they do). I admire those who can disagree with it, but respect them anyway.

I live by the philosophy that Love is stronger... than, well most things.
God made us all perfect.
We're all human beings.
And that it is not for us to judge. Don't play God.

I believe that the Bible is a guide, written by humans, made for humans to follow, instructed by God. Because humans wrote the Bible, it will have mistakes - Jesus came to say that we should not do away with the Old Testament, but that we should love our neighbour as we do ourselves and some of it's teachings our misguiding.

I don't think that they choose the way that they are, just the same way that we don't choose the way we are. I'm straight by nature, not by name, and you can't judge a person by their sexual preference.

"And here is the other thing, if we start picking apart the Bible and saying that homosexuality is ok then we can start making the argument that maybe other things that the Bible says are wrong are ok too. its a principle thing; the Bible is holy and correct. whatever it says goes and we are supposed to follow that...." - HuddyJoy0524

All right, I hear what you're saying, and I agree in principle. The principle being, that the Bible is holy, and the Bible is correct, but the Bible is not wholly correct, at least not in the most literal of senses.

Take, for example, Leviticus 19:28. The ignorance about certain passages in the Bible is perhaps best exhibited in link, which blatantly breaks the law as written in 19:28 while simultaneously supporting a law in the previous chapter (18:22).

In case you're not up to scratch on your verses and chapters (not judging - I have my cheat sheet, which is the only reason I can name them here), Leviticus 19:28 clearly states: "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves." (NIV)

Now, to be fair, one can argue that this is still a sin, even if several people forget or don't know about it, and therefore, the Bible is still correct. All right.

So let's look at Exodus 21:7 - "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do." (NIV) This chapter stipulates that a woman sold into slavery will not be free after six years, as customary for men sold into slavery. A technicality that, instead of denouncing slavery, implicitly sanctions it.

Let's look at Deuteronomy 22:11 - "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together." (NIV) Most people in modern society don't wear pure anything. T-shirts are often made of a blend of some sort (cotton/wool/polyester). We don't hold true to this.

Just a few verses down we find Deuteronomy 22:20-21 - "If.. no proof of the young [bride's] virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you."

Clearly, there are passages in the Bible that just do not translate to our times. I'm not saying that they set the standard for the whole text, for indeed the Bible also has several powerful stories and truths woven within it. I simply argue that the passages condemning homosexuality are, as in the case of these examples, no longer relevant.

@Ninja-Kitten - Thanks. It's nice to know I'm not talking to a bunch of brick walls.

*waves*
Not a brick wall :)

While I was in Paris, I saw the most adorable gay couple in the Louvre looking at paintings, and then they tried to go see Notre Dame because they were faithful Christians, and they weren't allowed in.

Faith shouldn't be taken away from people who didn't get a choice about what they're "doing wrong".

I love it when @Cinders get's on one of these topics, because never officially stating herself as religious or not before hand, she has the most open-minded view of anyone on here!

@mimifaith; yea, if you think open-minded means Christianity and bible all the way then yes she's open minded... -.-

The bible was written by MEN. Believing in someone who says "God does not exist" is the same as believing in the bible. God did not write the bible. I am Christian, I do believe in God, I have a lot of love for him but I do not believe in the bible. Some of it may be true - a lot of it probably isn't. No matter what you do or how you live your life, God will look into your heart. That's the only way he'll judge you. Not by some stupid rules MEN made.

@Schnusch; OH MY GOD!!!! Finally someone who shares my idea of the bible hahahaha! Oops wicked laugh... heheh sorry omg! :D I'm not alone hahah! :D

BAHAHAHA guys. Cinders is Agnostic. She's not "bible all the way", she's "without knowledge" as to God's existance.

Did you read her comment? She wasn't citing bible passages to show how wrong homosexuality was, she was citing them as an example of men's ignorance and how the bible contradicts itself.

Kay I confess, I didn't read it all either, but I am going to right now!

Okay I read it. Complete agreement, as usual.

@Schnusch, " Believing in someone who says "God does not exist" is the same as believing in the bible"

Can you explain that? Because it makes absolutely no sense.

I think its fine! I think people should be able to love any gender ( I'm straight though. )

God is love. Where ever there is love there you will find God. There is nothing wrong with being gay, lesbian, bi, pan or trans!

I've been mistaken for a Christian. Golly, I guess my work here is done.

PS - Aw, thanks you guys! I really do love the Christians in this spot, who are only further proof that Christian goodness and charity is the rule, not the exception.

PPS - I also don't blame anyone who skims my posts instead of hanging on my every word. I talk/type way too much. It's a character flaw. I'm glad people are at least skimming.

@Cinders; Yea, all of those bible quotes and biblical image shit, how the hell could we mistake you for one?

What, only Christians are supposed to read the Bible?

I suppose only Muslims read the Koran, then. Does that make me a Christian Muslim, or a Muslim Christian?

If you're going to engage a Christian in any meaningful conversation about their religion, then you better know your "biblical image shit," as you put it, at the very least as well as they know it.

I didn't say that, I'm saying that it's understandable for people to think you're a Christian.
And sometimes there is no meaningful conversation because it's in the Christian's culture to have respect to all and that everyone is the same, also known as emancipation. So why do we even have to discuss wether gay/bi/les/trans people are right or wrong?

End of discussion to me :P

I hate what they do, but NOT the people......I wish they'd realize how sinful and pointless it is.

I completely agree with Cinders. There are too many things in our society now that doesnt hold true to the Bible's original ways of thinking. And I also agree with Schnusch's opinion too.

Pointless...?-.-°

Pointless? Love is pointless? Thats a new one.

ShadowFan100, the way they love people is a core part of who they are. Love is never pointless.

@Ninja-Kitten; it's not that the gay/bi/trans part makes them who they are. it's not like the hetero part of me makes me who I am. It's just their sexual orientation. Yet, it's a very important part of their life, 'cause of the partner they choose.

and @ShadowFan100; pointless??? sinful??? i wish you'd realize how stupid you sound x3

what if someone'd say hetero love is sinful and pointless? if you'd say that to a person's face he or she'd be very hurt. and if that doesn't make you realize how stupid your statement was then i'm at my wits end xD

Ohmynonexistance it's you again.

How you love is certainly a core part of who you are! Being able to love is an important piece of being human!

Sexuality permeates everything we do, whether we are conscious of it or not. There is no escaping it. It is both at the core and at the peripheries of who we are.

@Ninja-Kitten;
I meant, it's not like you introduce yourself and say; hi, I fall for boys/girls/both. It's hi, I am <insert name>.
How you love is a part of how you live, and your ideals of how you love is who you are. Like, the ideal of "I'll always be there for my love" is who you are. But "I like boys/girls/both" isn't who you are.

It's no ALL of who you are, but the way you love people is a HUGE part of you!

The person you love is probably someone who you would do anything for. That person is like your second half, and therefore a big part of you.

I don't agree with it but i dont think you go to hell. I just think it is a huge form of lust.

You don't believe it's love? That hurts quite a bit. I love my girlfriend very much. I don't just lust after her.

In the Bible it says they are sinful, but God created them that way didn't He?

I could argue that, just as "normal", heterosexual people think that homosexuality is "abnormal", that homosexual people perhaps think that heterosexuality is "abnormal". Just as a leech can argue that earthworms have the virtue of being more like leeches than humans. Now wouldn't that be nice?

I don't agree with them, but who am I to judge? I know plenty of homosexuals. They're all exceptionally nice.

I dont think its right honestly, but I dont think they should get the crap they get today. The only reason why I support the gay rights bill, is because this whole thing is another civil rights movement. Other then that, I dont really agree with them

Yeah. I don't believe I'm to change anyone, plus I'm not very convincing. xD

i dont agree with what they do, because its a sin. However, as a christian you are suppose to treat everyone equal. and i do. :)I have a gay friend, and he's super cool! i just don't agree with his life style.

and i totally dissagree with the passages @Cinder is using from the Bible. THOSE ARE FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT!!!!!! BEFORE CHRIST CAME!!!!! things were different, you are completely using the Bible out of context. And that is a very dangerous place you do NOT want to go.

"THOSE ARE FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT!!!!!! BEFORE CHRIST CAME!!!!! things were different, you are completely using the Bible out of context."

Thank you! That was precisely the point I was trying to make. I'm sure you're also familiar with the Old Testament (before Christ) passage of Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)

You are absolutely correct when you exclaim that all the Leviticus, Exodus and Deuteronomy chapters I quoted from came before Christ, were from a different time, and were out of context. Leviticus 18:22 is absolutely no exception to that.

You'll note that I agreed with this in my original post. Original quote:

"Clearly, there are passages in the Bible that just do not translate to our times. I'm not saying that they set the standard for the whole text, for indeed the Bible also has several powerful stories and truths woven within it. I simply argue that the passages condemning homosexuality are, as in the case of these examples, no longer relevant."

So thanks again for helping me prove my point. :o)

i completely see what your saying. Old testament passages are out dated, and since Christ came we are forgiven. however in the NEW testament even after Christ came it says,

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed INDECENT acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

it still says that homosexuality is unnatural, and perverse.
but i do agree with you on the Old Testament passages.

And the New Testament isn't outdated?! :O

I never said the entire Old Testament is outdated, or is no longer relevant. There are many things in the Old Testament that are good stories, morals and ideas, and many that form the foundation of the Christian Faith. For example, the Ten Commandments (Exodus) are still considered a key component of Christian values, and have such universal and timeless "laws" such as "Thou shalt not kill" and "Honor thy father and thy mother." I could name any number of more examples (if you like) that are very relevant in modern society, and are not (nor do I think they ever can be) outdated at all.

That being said, and as much as I prefer the New Testament for universal truths on subjects like forgiveness, peace and love, it, too, has its flaws and irrelevancies.

Examples: "You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." - James 4:4 (NIV) - Now, I've thought that this verse is mistranslated, or poorly translated, specifically the words "friend" and "world." I'm not sure if this is a warning against sexual misconduct (IE, "Friends *wink wink*" with "the world" or EVERYONE), or if this is advising against being kind to or open to nonbelievers and sinners. But I'm inclined to feel that it's the latter. This passage is vague, if it was translated correctly, or mistranslated, especially if the intended meaning WAS against promiscuity. Either way, it's an iffy passage, at best.

"And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart." - Hebrews 12:20 (NIV) - This harkens back to orders from the Old Testament, but is found in the New Testament.

"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." John 2:10-11 - In other words, don't wish well to nonbelievers, and don't be hospitable to them, or you'll be sinning. That's not the message I take away from Christ.

Look, I could quote more New Testament passages if you want me too. But unlike missy, I don't think the whole thing is outdated, anymore than I think the whole Old Testament is outdated. Like I said originally, I don't like to let a few confusing, violent, unjust and/or absurd passages that DO exist in the Bible detract from all of the clear, wise, peaceful and loving passages that exist within it as well. I think that, though, sometimes it takes common sense sorting out what's what.

You use that, even when you declare the Old Testament as "outdated" but the concept that homosexuality is a sin is still relevant. Many other Christians do it, as well. They see Leviticus 18:22, and they come to their own conclusion that homosexuality is wrong, but so is killing them. Ergo, most only obey the first half of that verse - "Thou shalt not lie with man as one lies with a woman" and ignores the second half where it says a person should be put to death for it.

So then comes the question - well, what isn't outdated, then? After all, one person's common sense is not necessarily another's. For example, I believe that passages condemning homosexuality no longer translate to this modern age, just as I believe passages condemning women (and female sexuality) are no longer relevant. However, others use the same passages that I dismiss as unimportant as the very foundations of their arguments against gays and/or women.

Inevitably, there is no answer to that. You must believe what makes sense to you, and if you want to believe that God is against homosexuality, then you are entitled to that belief. But I respectfully disagree. After all, Jesus preached a message of love and to connect with and assist our fellow human beings. I highly doubt he would condemn that same thing, if it existed between two people of the same sex.

^ Amen.

People now think Einstein's theories are outdated. For me, I don't think anything is ever "outdated" because its all relevant, its all history. It all matters, even if its wrong.
I just think its a little odd to suggest that the Old Testament is outdated, but the New Testament isn't. They may say slightly different things about homosexuality, but in the end, the outcome is the same: intolerance. Both versions say that homosexuality is wrong and THAT is the "outdated" part of this debate.

This basically says it all. You can't change the way you feel and you shouldn't. If people love someone, then they should discover if that someone loves them back.

I hope this doesn't make me sound lesbian 'cause I'm not, I just think that "gays, bi-sexual, lesbians" have rights.

I support gay marraige and think that no one has a right to deprive someone of their decision to marry who they want. They arent hurting anyone so why should they be judged for loving someone?

If god really does exist, I really don't see what he has against homosexuality. But if he created all people, then wouldn't he have created them to be like that?

I honestly dont give a ripe rats Arse what you think of me or my kind. I spit out scarier things then you when I brush my pearlies in the A.M.

Whoa!!! Logical, thought out, fair, truthful, from the bottom of my Bi heart, uh Thank you!!!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, whether they be religious or not. But even though I'm Agnostic, I personally think there is no real reason to be against it~

I'm just very grateful that no one has chosen the "I hate them" option. You may hate what they do but not the actual person. That is a true Christian =)

^ This.

I don't hate the people, but I am still against homosexuality. I mean God made man and woman to be together, for crying out loud

I love them but I hate their sin.

"I hate what they do, but NOT the people......I wish they'd realize how sinful and pointless it is."

Looking back on my original post as a Gay Ace, holy sh*t. I sure have changed since then. I am a Homoromantic Asexual and support them 100%.

Yep.

Yeah.... scratch that other comment, too. I still support them, but I'm no longer Homoromantic. I'm a Schediaphile.