for me i think

angel and buffy the moment with the ring in surprise

for spike definitely the dream but i'm not sure when buffy's feeling turn in to love

Well, I'm not a Bangel but probably in surprise.

Spike, the dream I think at first he thought it was just passing attraction. I don't think he truly realized he was in love till Fool For Love, when he saw Buffy crying. I think Buffy fell in love with Spike around Never Leave Me.

It's hard for me to pinpoint in Bangel because I think we didn't see as much of that relationship in the sense that there wasn't any real growth. It was "I like you, I write in my diary about you, Oh, vampire? Ok, we can deal" sort of story for me. I think Angel felt love (not going into the lust/redeeming thing here) in "Angel" when she accepts him. With Buffy I think it was most obvious in the ring scene but I like to think it was before then and the threat of being separated pushed them to go further and admit it. I really wish we had more of a relationship, more of the fights and small little glances and smiles. It was grand and with that I felt like we lost the little pieces.

In Spuffy I think the dream was the opening of his eyes and the porch scene was him falling completely for Buffy (going with Nika). It was Spike seeing her weakness and not taking advantage of it, but trying to comfort her because he cares about how she feels.

I think Nika is right about Buffy accepting to a degree her feelings for Spike. I think she opened up to him in Intervention (not love, just trust), realized there was something very big there in Never Leave Me, and was able to admit it was love in Touched.

hmmm i disagree he had been toying with the buffy thing for a while acting strange with her and stuff which whe your just watching it looks like he's just a bit in to the kinky slayer thing but i think the dream is a real shock factor for him
i know he stills tries to kill her but it's because he loves her and then she rejects him especially with the beneath me thing digs deep with spike all his emocions bleed in to one passionate thing lol

hmm, I can see that. I always thing as This Year's Girl (Or is it Who Am I? Not too sure at the moment), as him being really into a non-patrol rough and tumble. I think James played the lust factor since School Hard (I'm 100% sure I've read it in interviews) but he wouldn't go there because he is (and this is strange to say about an evil vampire) a good boyfriend. As far as my opening my eyes comment I think the "I love you" was the shock that this was somthing big, if it had been more in line with kinky or dirty talk I don't think he would have freaked out nearly as much.

If he can kill her then it means he doesn't really love her. It's his defense mechanism. Like when your boyfriend picks a fight over things that he has never cared about before because he's afraid of being content. (Ok, I have issues). The whole beneath me thing was such a sad Spike moment. After that, if he is able to go and comfort her, he's in it bad. Spike never does anything half way. Be it fighting, loving or being completely ignorant.

James has a lot of quotes saying that he played up an attraction to Buffy right away. It was in the Spuffy quotes site I sent you, lol. He said how Spike would have never done anything with Buffy in season two, because on his love for Drusilla.

I agree with Arabella about the Beneath Me comment. I think he realised he truly loved her at the end of Fool For Love, because at that moment, he had more motive and incentive to kill her than he ever did before, and it only took one look at her crying to get that rage to fade away.

I'm now being reminded of something in a comedy show that Chris Rock did, 'If you haven't contemplated murder, you ain't been in love.' Lol.

Those quotes are neatly clipped together within arms reach. I love them. So perfect.

Chris Rock is completely right.

He is. I love his whole skit on it, lol. I actually have the urge to type the whole thing, but I'll refrain, lol.

Now, I've got the urge to find it somewhere and post it on the stand up comedy spot as well. But I don't know if your allowed to post vid's with the use of profanity.

I'm honestly not 100% sure, you could probably link it.

If I find it, lol. Oh, I'm really going off topic.

Lol Yes, we tend to do that. So...Buffy, Angel, Spuffy. All that love, yup. Love, love love. And lust, and understanding, and fights, and passion. All there.

Ok, topicy now. Do you guys buy the marriage thing with the ring? I've heard and read in many a fan fic that the ring, when accepted in such a way, can constitute marriage. I never thought of this and I don't know how I feel about it. I think the ring was a major move in their relationship. Like a promise ring, becuase up until that point I think they were skating around the issue just a tiny bit but this was laying the cards on the table. I think the act of falling in love had to have been done before this, but this is the end of the diving board, so to say.

I've heard that to, and if it's true, than it just makes me dislike Bangel more. Because it's an Irish tradition, so Angel would have known about it, and he never bothered to explain that to Buffy, therefore binding her to him without her knowledge or consent. But that's only if it's true.

Next convention we need to corner Joss and talk to the man. He knows all (or makes it up on the spot). First step, I need to get my but to a convention.

Me to. We can team up and tie him down so we can make him answer our questions. Oh, and bounce around our theories with him, lol.

Lol, I'll bring Cookies too, seems the right thing to do. We should only let him go with a promise of either a film or releasing the cartoons. I think they did a few completely and I'm dying to see them but haven't found anything.

I can always make the cookies, lol. I think I'd want the film.

Me too, film over cartoons but everyone seems so busy. James is signed for 2 more Dragonball movies and hopefully Torchwood. I know he would do it, and Joss wants it....maybe we need to kidnap Sarah or we can hold Freddy for ransom. We need SMG on board. Besides that we're good.

Lol, need Amy and Alyson as well. And maybe Juliet.

You need more than that!! We'd need Buffy, Angel, Spike, Giles, Willow, Xander (to kill him off), Illyria, Lorne, Andrew & Dawn (maybe to kill her off too...) I think I'd be ok with that, maybe Conner as well though...and maybe he dies.

ooooo don't forget to kill kennedy

I like Dawn and Conner, I don't want to kill them. But Kennedy and Xander is a go.

i don't care with dawn either way, sometimes i like her sometimes i don't but that's the same with buffy
i really like bad ass coner when he first comes and settled family conor is quite funny

I like Dawn mostly around Spike. With Buffy it depends. There are times I really hate her, and times I can love her as a character.

Dawn and Conner are the major issues I have with either show (as well as something else on Buffy I won't go into here.) and I think both their deaths could result in some major vengeance-wreaking havoc for Buffy and Angel.

I was kinda hoping Kennedy was already dead so she doesn't have to appear at all!

hmmmm i like idea of vengence wreaking for angel bring back some of the dark angel is season 2 but i think buffy would just break down like in spiral which would not be good

oh and erm nice void of a spuffy comment there lol

Can we all just go with the concept of Riley dying out in the field? So we give him, Xander, and Kennedy the boot. I would be ok with the lack of Robin Wood as well.