Who ever agrees to this needs to go check themselves. Rape is not a joke. It should NEVER be used as a plot device.

Not unless you openly want to offend many victims of such a crime, I think it is best to keep such a thing out of a fictional story that uses it for romance. A backstory is understandable but never as something to make the victim fall in love with the perpetrator.

H*ll No

It's sick and horrible, expecally if it's used a lot threw the series. I hate it how people act like it's perfectly fine to use and that it makes it more entertaining. Just..no...no. Rape should not be used in anything, it's a VERY serious topic. And should not used as something romantic. This is why I can't find any good Shounen Ai anime to watch, it either is all about sex or has rape in it. :/ One of the main reasons I don't like Junjou Romantica. People are always trying to make excusses for Akihiko, even though he raped Misaki more then once and never once said he was sorry or even acted sorry.

Ummm, of course not.

I ascribe to George Carlin's mentality on the subject - that anything can be funny and that rape shouldn't be treated as off limits and too serious to be used in ways that depict it differently from how we perceive it as a general rule. I don't like rape, I'm not here to defend rape, but I think it's not unreasonable to utilize rape in a romantic story, just as it's not unreasonable to joke about rape. I'm not going to say it's good, but I'm not going to condemn it either.

white: That is ridiculous, there is NOTHING funny about rape and there is nothing romantic about it. Using it as a joke is just sick.

I disagree. I think if you're talking about a real person getting raped and the repercussions, there's nothing funny about that. If you're talking about fake characters in an implausible situation engaging in rape, it can be. It may not be your type of humor, but that doesn't make it good or bad. Just as rape may not be a source of romantic feelings for you or me, though we know plenty of people who love couples that would involve one character who is clearly asserting his/her power over the other, often to the point of injury. Again, not my thing, doesn't make it bad or good though.

White: Umm...it kind of does. Rape = WRONG. I don't care if it's fictional or not, it IS still sick and wrong. Anyone who thinks it's a joke or funny or romantic, is sick themselves.

...So I think we can all agree that murder is wrong, and yet we laugh at mentions of someone wanting to kill someone, and sometimes even at cartoons that depict murder. Terrible injuries are something a lot of people laugh at, as long as they're not real. I'd say that terrible injuries are a bad thing too. Perhaps you see rape as a step above, but I can't really see the separation here. I think it's not sick or wrong for someone to laugh at a situation where they know that no one is actually being harmed, and it doesn't matter whether that person is laughing at rape or murder or injury. As long as they can distinguish between that fake action and the reality, I can't see where the problem lies.

White: Umm...I don't know what you are talking about. Because I don't laugh at fight scenes or when someone is killed. Anyone who does needs some help. Problem lies? The fact that you don't see anything wrong with people freakin laughing about sick things like that!

You've never seen a cartoon character get hit on the head with an anvil and laughed? You've never laughed when one of Wile E. Coyote's scams went wrong, or when Sylvester managed to hurt himself trying to catch Tweety Bird? Violence is in a lot of things we watch. I'm not just talking about anime and fight scenes, I'm talking about how characters are injured and in some cases die as a result of their own actions or someone else's, and we laugh about it. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with watching a character from a show slip and fall and be in tears afterward. There's nothing wrong with watching Little Nicky and laughing every time he dies because you know he's going to come back. And it's been going on in shows and movies since there were shows and movies.

I'm not exactly thrilled with the usage of rape in things, but I won't make a big deal about it, either. Yes, it's wrong in plenty of ways and I wouldn't see any reason to laugh at it. Frankly, I just don't want anything to do with it, personally... I can see how it might make a theme in a book feel more interesting and life-like, but I've never really enjoyed any moments like that. As far as I'm concerned, these things get written about and put in movies and shows by people and I doubt they're going to stop just because I happen to dislike it. Human nature, by definition, is inherently sick in many ways. Therefore, I will remain indifferent about it, simply because I'll just end up disappointed in human nature (again) otherwise.

@Whiteflame. I see what you mean. It's a good comparison, but that's the thing about TV and media in this day and age - violence is present on television, in books, games and movies, as well as frequent in real-life situations. But, I doubt writing about rape is really going to have a majorly superfluous effect. I've never read anything where rape makes the story better in any way, whatsoever. I can see your point, though, however I don't personally feel like I would be able to laugh at something like that, though, I'm not sure why anyone would want to in the first place.

And I completely agree. Even George Carlin's example of making rape funny ("Picture Elmer Fudd, raping Porky Pig") is not at all funny to me. I can't see anything that would make me chuckle in that. But as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't dictate what is and is not appropriate for someone to use as a joke based off of our own personal preference.

^ And yet, people do it all the time.

White: I am not talking about that. I'm talking about RAPE here and DEATH. Anime and Cartoons, their violence is usually different. Cartoons have the sound effects, like Tom & Jerry. But Anime, the violence is 99% of the time serious and never funny. So I'm not talking about that at all, that is a different story all together and shouldn't be put together.

Sadly, yes.

So what makes those OK, but not anime violence? You say sound effects, but I don't think they erase the bruises and bandages the characters have afterward. The sound effects simply make it more cartoony, they don't erase the injury. And these characters die too - there are several Looney Toons episodes and movies I remember where characters went to heaven or hell, or we're at least on their way by the end. As for anime being serious, that's more common, but hardly 99% of the time. Cowboy Bebop had several episodes where the violence was so bewilderingly over the top that it was hilarious. The same is true of Tengen Toppa Gurren Laagan, and Lupin the Third was literally nothing but a parody of action anime. There's more of a tendency towards seriousness in anime, but that makes little difference. Why does the seriousness of most anime make it not alright to depict death and rape?

Is rape ever good?

No, it's not, but that's not the point of the question. Many bad things are still good to use in romance stories - we all want some conflict. It's just a matter of where it stems from. We can all agree that rape is a general bad in real life but accept it as an ethically neutral aspect of fantasy stories like those in anime and manga.

When I say disagree I am disagreeing specifically for romance stories. I personally could not see how you could end up falling in love with someone who did such a vile atrocious thing to you. The only way I could see it in a romance story is if a character was about to be raped and then someone else comes along to stop it and later on that person falls in love with their rescuer.
However, besides romance it depends on the story line. There's some plot lines that revolve around the crime of rape, investigative detective shows for instance. Without such awful crimes the story couldn't go anywhere. I don't support rape in any way whatsoever. I have met actual victims of rape in real life and it's just beyond depressing seeing how much it has devastated them, physically, mentally, and emotionally. It's not something I believe should be supported at all. In fact it disgusts me how it can be tossed around as a joke so loosely. Even though I have never and will never support it even in fiction, when it comes to fiction it all depends on the specific show and how it is used within the plot line.

Correct me if I'm wrong, hetalianstella, but isn't the situation you described where someone rescues another person from a rapist a good use of rape in a romance story? Just saying. Anyway, I get your point, though in some ways, I don't think you'll get full agreement from a wider audience. Don't get me wrong, I in no way agree with the perceptions of these people, but... well, let's take Ulquihime, a regularly touted couple in Bleach. It screams Stockholm syndrome, as well as a number of other disquieting issues that would lead me to believe that people who support it either don't fully recognize what happened between these two characters or they support something very strange. Nonetheless, I don't think it's reasonable to call it good or bad to like these things in the context of what is essentially a story. Like or dislike isn't the same as good or bad, even if they're felt strongly. It also doesn't necessary showcase endorsement to appreciate something in fiction.

But I really want to get at this joke thing. I think there's something very wrong with looking at the real world and making a joke about an actual or potential rape victim. I don't think that these are thrown around loosely, and at least in the public sphere, it's treated with tremendous gravity when someone says something even considered close to a joke about real world rape. To my recollection, George Carlin's just about the only comedian who's ever gone to that length on purpose, and his reasoning wasn't to make the joke itself, but to showcase how ridiculous it is that our politically correct society talks about freedom so highly and yet governs how people talk. Labeling a joke, a romance story, or anything else as good or bad on the basis of whether it includes rape in a certain facet seems like another measure to do exactly that.

There is NOTHING funny about rape. It's a very serious issue, and there are many people who are traumatized because of it. It pisses me off when I see people tossing it around as a joke.

Zeppie, I'm not sure that that is the point of the question, especially considering the way pumpkinqueen (who asked the question) has been responding to me. If it was, this would be much more about personal preference, and we could all simply say "disagree" because, let's face it, not many people like having rape as a plot point in story lines. There are usually better ways to do it. The question seems to be saying is it good from an ethical standpoint to incorporate rape into romance stories.

kakukun, I've already been through much of this conversation with other people on here, but I'll start it with you as well. I think there's a pretty simple way to make rape a joking issue without connecting it to reality - put it in a cartoon world where things are fantastic and absurd to begin with. I'm not saying I tend to appreciate jokes about rape, quite the contrary, but should we really be telling people that their choice of joke is not acceptable simply because we don't like the content? I don't think it does any harm to the rape community at large when this happens, and I don't think people suddenly become desensitized to rape as a result.

I don't believe that it is that clear, but fine, you can answer the question how you please. And I don't think our argument is necessarily tangential. Saying something is a "good thing to use" in anything comes down to a matter of perspective, and a part of that perspective is the ethics involved. You want to focus on whether it functions as a good plot point to move the story along specifically from a storytelling perspective, whereas we want to focus on whether it's good to use in any context for any reason from a moral perspective.

Agreed with Zeppie. The "rape" aspect of the story could help with a character's backstory, and that action leading them to be a certain way and would be great for character developments emotionally/or physically.

You could use it as the girl was raped, and is afraid of men and there's this one guy who tries to help her get over her fear, they become best friends in the end and she says that he's the only man she'll love. You shouldn't having it as the rapist gets love from the victim. (Story line of the manga Bitter Virgin, I believe)

whiteflame55: Yeah, but they are alive the next episode aren't they? While in anime, if a character dies, they are dead. And I highly doubt that many people are laughing at them actually 'dying', but what they say or the sign they hold up. Like it usually says 'sad ending isn't it?'

Why don't you tell my friend who was rape that laughing at fictional rape is funny, see how she likes it. -_- It is highly offensive to the people who have been emotional scarred by rape, not to mention disrespectful.

And yeah, the question was very clear. I may have went off topic some, but making the point none the less.

Emo: Oh of course, using rape like that is fine. Same as death is used in the plot. Such as in with I write stories or RP, I'll have a character die for emotion or I'll have one of them get kidnapped to add drama. But for romance or humor, heck no.

So now the standard is whether they're alive or not the next time you see them? Do I have to bring up the multitude of anime that makes a point of involving characters who have died, or bringing back dead characters? Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, Naruto... the list is practically endless. Sure, these people are brought back by other means than the start of a new episode, but I don't think that makes much difference. And I think many people laugh at just the fact that they got themselves into such a mess. It's a little more permanent of a mess than usual, but it's still a mess. And I did give you a list of anime where violence and injury is used as a source of amusement, and in those cases, there are no special signs that make them funny.

And your friend doesn't have to watch it, or enjoy it. I don't watch it, nor do I enjoy it. I'm not saying it's funny to me, and I'm not trying to find humor in it. But we shouldn't silence people on an issue by saying it's offensive. None of us have to listen to a comedian using rape as part of their standup, and someone who is traumatized by it can stay away from it. Just as someone who is traumatized by an injury can stay away from depictions of that injury in any form. It shouldn't be up to us to decide what is and isn't funny, it's up to each individual's preferences. A show that depicts rape as a joke might very well get cancelled, but let it be cancelled by a lack of willingness on the part of an audience to laugh at it rather than by some overarching structure that says "this is bad, don't do this."

If the question was worded 'Agree or disagree: it is okay to use rape in a romance story?', I would have agreed. But the word 'good' makes me pick indifferent for obvious reasons.

Well, Whiteflame pretty much explained anything I would have to say on the subject, honestly. If there is anything for me to say, it would be this; it depends on perspective. People can find rape to be totally bad and a sick joke, not worth making a joke about, not worth including in a sentence that may shine evenly the slightest of positive lights on it. That's fine. But there are also people out there who believe using a swastika in literature is blasphemy. Needless to say, there are an infinite amount of times where people have used the symbol, as well as Nazis. Is there anything wrong with that? Hardly. The same goes for killing, cursing, name usage, and many other things. Rape is cruel, harsh, disgusting, and sick. And frankly, it can make for good backstory. 'Can' being the operative word there.

Besides, though I hate to defend sexual offenders in the world, rape is basically just forced sex. Intercourse is generally accepted, so clearly the 'forced' part is bad. I'm forced to pay for gas. I don't like it, but where is my legion of passionate rioters who impose their own opinion on those of different taste and opinion?

Anyways, I strongly believe that anything that can get the audience to react strongly makes for good backstory, whether it be positive or negative. The fact that people can argue so strongly on either side about this is proof enough for me, honestly. And I definitely don't want to insult anyone, but I'm laboring under the assumption that just about none here have been raped--feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. This means your knowledge on the subject comes not from experience, but from observing others who have been raped through television, the internet, possibly through personal connection, and, of course, though literature. And if we look at the cold hard facts, for every victim who has actually gone through the hell of rape, there is a twisted sexual predator who thoroughly enjoyed it. Luckily, we only need to consider one of the opinions.

But anyways, the point of the question was whether rape is good or bad in a romance story. I'm not one far hardcore romance (rather, I may read material with romance included, but not the focus), but I still feel that such a trauma inducing and harsh backstory can make for good plot. I'm just not going to start humming with joy if I see a tragic character who has been raped.

And I'll say it; I've seen many rape jokes in my lifetime, many of which are in bad taste. I have laughed to a fair amount of them. I am not ashamed.

Well said, exorcist. One more thing I'd like to add - I think since we're talking about forced affections, I have to point out that there is a Looney Toons character who got laughs for doing just that. Pepe le Pew, always chasing that cat who managed, time and again, to get stripes of white along her back. Now, I'm not trying to say that Looney Toons was insinuating that he was a rapist, but he certainly did press his affections upon her on a regular basis. And I definitely laughed plenty while I watched their merry chase.

Let's just say that a girl was raped and the man who raped her was put into prison. Years later, she meets a guy, but doesn't know if he can be trusted after her past experience.
For that kind of thing, okay, go ahead and use it.
BUT,
if you're going to use rape as a joke or stereotype a rape situation completely, then fuck off.

i guess it's used to create a damsel in distress situation. you get a dashing guy to rescue her, and a innocent girl to protect. use it as infrequently as possible, and for god's sake, don't get explicit about it or actually go through with it, but it can move the story along. i'd rather it not be used, but it is what it is.

Well no because rape period is not okay, but if the writer of that story wants to have rape in their story then its fine with me. If you don't like rape or any type of sexual activity then don't watch/read it.
That kind of stuff does happen in real life, and it's horrible. But it just doesn't seem that bad 'to me' in anime mostly in a yaoi anime I mean because half of the time it's just about love and lust.
I don't mind it nor half way care. I actually watched an anime (yaoi) with rape in it ( I wouldn't call it rape tho) and I was just like woah there..whats going on here? xD And most people actually like that stuff, it makes a good story to me I guess. I mean I watch it even if it didn't have rape in it.
It's all a matter of opinions
So I don't agree nor do I disagree.

@silverexorcist like wow you couldn't have said it better.

Yumi: Talking about Junjou Romantic aren't you? Because that was rape. Akihiko raped Misaki more then once, he forced himself on him. Misaki told him to stop and get off him. And that isn't love, if you loved someone you wouldn't do that to them that many times. And never once say you are sorry. That is just lust. Yaoi fans are just fine with it, ignoring the fact that it is rape and not right, just because they want hot Yaoi sex. Real or not, rape is still wrong and horrible. And anyone who actually likes rape is a sicko.

It's not about liking rape. You can appreciate a joke about a delicate subject, you can appreciate a show that includes rape and find its inclusion to be a good thing. You can appreciate the ways its played in and the ways its used without being a "sicko."

Let's be fair; EVERYTHING has a certain amount of humor in it, once you cast aside restrictive morals and bias. I'm certain that, no matter how bad a joke, there is someone out there who will find it funny. That goes for rape. You can call those sort of people sick, disgusting, freaks, and so on, but it doesn't change the fact that they exist. Furthermore, there are people out there who enjoy rape stories, period, regardless of use. Regardless of how you view them, I think we can all agree that they are out there. And so, going back to the topic at hand, writers tend to keep in mind what the READERS want to read. So if the demographic happens to be filled with a bunch of kinky rape-loving college dropouts, then it would be good for them to have the story filled with that sort of stuff. I'd never read it, but the demographic exists.

If you want to deny this fact, go look around in some adult bookstores and look in the corners where the 'hardcore' stuff is hidden. Heck, go on the internet and look up some doujinshis for pretty much any series, especially Touhou. Rape is a common subject in them in all sorts of ways, and people are definitely reading them. Not that I'm happy with how some of my favorite characters ended up being portrayed...

White: No, if you like rape in story in that way and think it's funny, you are a sicko. Liking sexual things and liking rape, totally different. Sex is naturally, while rape is disgusting and wrong.

Exorcist: Wait...are you freakin comparing having to pay for something to rape?!

Yes, yes I am. Although, the point was more toward the 'forced' nuance of the two situations. Just to be clear, what is it you find so disgusting about rape that is absent in normal sex? The violence? The lack of consent?

Pumpkin, you're just being tremendously judgmental. You're essentially labeling anyone who finds a joke about rape the least bit funny as sick and depraved. I view that as pretty close minded. It's not depraved to find humor in a situation you view as serious in any instance. As I've mentioned earlier, and defended copiously, we find terrible injuries and death funny on multiple levels in kids shows. You haven't given a single reason why finding those things funny is dramatically different from finding rape funny.

I don't bother answering this. It's just wrong. Rape is a cruel and harmful thing to do. I feel like reporting this question to the Fanpop admins. Rape is NOT something you should use in anime. It's wrong and cruel. If people agree to this, they are a bunch of dumbasses. It should not be used as a joke either. It's NOT funny too. People can die from it, so I don't see why it should be used in anime. It's just wrong

Unless it involves a characters struggle to overcome being raped, I personally don't think it's ever a good idea to use it.

White, I get what your saying about people making jokes about violence and death. However, personally I never liked that sort of dark humor. I will admit I enjoy comedy anime where the guy get's abused by girls. Such as in The Familiar of Zero or MM!. Although, I think that's different. The guys in those anime don't really suffer any lasting physical harm and they don't suffer any emotional trauma. Aside from that, I hate it when a show uses dark humor and makes serious injury or death seem funny. That's the main reason I don't watch Family Guy or South Park. I don't see how you could use rape as a joke without it coming of as dark.

I don't think that everyone who likes dark humor is supremely twisted, but I can't help how I feel. I'm normally pretty laid back, but jokes that use extreme violence or rape really piss me off.

There's no harm being picky about what you like and don't like to see. We all have things we draw the line on, and a lot of people do so at rape. You'll get no judgement from me there. It's just the idea of judging others for what they find funny that gets to me.

Agreed with Dewheart and Zeppie. Rape is not something you should use, and it should not be used as a joke either. It's wrong and cruel. Especially in anime and manga. People who laugh at it is wrong too. I don't even see why the hell this was put up in the first place. This poll has just caused a huge debate fight on this club, and I have nothing to say about it for the least.

riley, two things. First off, this is not a fight. This is a debate. This is what this page is about - a constructive conversation over a meaningful issue. It has meaning to all of us, even if we take different sides on how we should look at it. Second, where I take issue and where BP and silverexorcist do as well is with a statement made by several people here that says that it is inherently wrong to laugh at anything related to rape, and that the people who do so are screwed up for doing it. It's incredibly judgmental and narrow-minded. No one here is talking about laughing at a real life rape, and everyone here is stating emphatically that rape in its real form is wrong. Several of us just find it unreasonable to treat rape as untouchable when it comes to jokes.

I agree. It is wrong to laugh or make fun of Rape and people are dumbasses if they do that. I respect your opinion and it is very good Whiteflame.

I think you at least partially misinterpreted it. I'm not saying that it's never alright to laugh at rape. I said it's not alright to laugh at real rape or the prospect of it. I think there are jokes that can be made and made well that include rape.

Rape is plot device and it DOES happen and if someone does not care for that, it is their right and opinion, but I have experienced horrors of life enough personal, it does not bother me, and I am not desensitized or apathic either. I used it as a plot device long before adulthood. It is a grisley reality and it depends what the author wants to bring to the table. Do they want to add some terrible twist, some depth, an element of tension? - it can make the reader connect to the character emotionally or be for any number of reasons, and good writers and bad writers have used this "device" throughout the centuries in classic works, as well, of course. I see strong opinions here as being "personal" and these should not be attacking. It is a personal issue. What I DO mind is "bad" writing (whatever that is in my own opinion w/or without sex scenes or rape) and sensationalism just for pure grandisose value I do not care for. Everyone has different tastes. I am not 'indifferent' so much as I think it just depends on what is brought to the story, what the author seeks & accomplishes and how it adds or effects, (pos or neg), and if it is an element that lends to the story.

For MORE lol, as I am just as adament, and quite fit to have my opinion, I DO NOT appreciate people not being able to be mature or they can read "age appropriate" and NOT be so disrespectful to others and rude because of their own issues, (omg) see page 2 --->

I totally disagree with the first two people. That is your opinions and I respect - but I mean... really? 'you cannot speak for me or so absolute on the behalf of all victims. Please don't put me down or speak for me at all! I am not that sensitive on this subject and I do not need "delicate" handling. I have experienced my share of things, I won't get into, and what I have or you have is not something I wish to get into EITHER. It does not bother me at all to read it or have it be used as a literary device. I am not sensitive about it personally in real life either. I DO try to respect the emotions of others. I am well over 21 and capable of deciding for myself what I choose to read or like. No one needs to tell me to check myself or look into a mirror if they do not know me! Plus, I do not have to like everything. I would NOT want any author to feel like they have to appease me or water-down on my behalf. (Sexual things bother me less than the killing or mutilation of animals! but that is just me.) I repect their right to tell THEIR story however they choose, and like I said we all have different tastes. I like layered stories with depth and dimensions and twists... edgy and realistic is absolutely fine with me -because that IS real life and I like realistic elements.

I am really tempted to say more. What I AM going to say, and I hope those people will hear me, whether they like me or agree or not~ I do NOT appreciate the "way" opinions were thrown out there in terms to other people here, I just read statements like, "That is ridiculous!" NO. That is a differing opinion than YOURs. Look. It sounds like some certain females have issues and as a female I do NOT share "your" issues. I find YOUR SPEECH as it is used as much of as offense as you may find this "sensitive" topic to you. I have seen some of you around Fanpop cringing and reacting negatively to non-rape sexual things. I honestly do not know what your issues are but they definately sound personal and should not be put off on other people. The LAST thing you need to do or have a right to do is wag them onto someone else. Creative freedom is just that, and differences are just that. The line is crossed when you insult others like that for any contrary opinion. Your views and ways are not the only ways. I am not even sure what made these opinions of yours, but I am ONLY conveying my concern at how I see you doing this and distaste at several people posting here who seemed to not be respecting of others and those opinions seem to lump in harsh judgements to what would be a different opinion. I do NOT like.

Wow, liking the tirade, Sinna. You go girl!

Hmm. A passionate slew of righteous fury. I like it :D

Although, my dear Sinna, in the midst of your stubborn refusal to be put down by those who refuse to accept differing opinions, you're rejecting their opinion that happens to be different from yours. I'd agree with you, if not for that one contradiction--one people have called me out on many times in the past. As much as it annoys me to see people casting aside an opinion they don't like because it seems unfeasible to them, I'd be casting aside their opinion by saying something. Such an unfair conundrum that is.

I'm going to have to agree with Sinna on this, because she has a very good point. Plus, I know what it is like, at least, to some extent... it happened to my sister, who was too young to know what had really happened, so I felt a brotherly rage for her and punched a few things, almost breaking my hand, but it wouldn't offend that, for me, to see someone write about rape, or rather, use it as a plot device, because it is fictional and the writer certainly isn't using it to try and offend rape victims.

Sorry, please allow me to clarify, Silver :) [Hi ya guys ^///^] Let me be PERFECTLY clear to anyone, I am not disagreeing with anyone's freedom to view and dislike etc- whatever they wish, it was simply "how" it was said that absolutely felt went against the very club rules... the plain implication of what was first posted that started out this post that could set off the tone, and seemed to call "anyone" sick or whatever names if they felt otherwise. I don't feel that was a good way to make their opinions known- so "the way" they did was my problem. The rest was my opinion on the subject. My prob was the manner of "how" it was said. It doesn't make for an atmosphere of respect or comfortablity. I felt like Whiteflame was a bit jumped on and I left out to dry there for a bit. (I'm normally not quite that chompy), but I don't want lumped in or to be thought all women feel that way. They can think I am sick or ridiculous if they choose, they already know I like ecchi, sexy things, but I do not think what they felt needed or should have been said that way. I don't know ages here, but I thought this was debate where different views are to be respected and I did not feel like that from the FIRST post. No - I DO respect their rights to have that view, Silver. I just did not respect "how" it was said so antagonistically. I do not know on what basis, but what really matters to me is that people should not feel put down if they disagree or feel personally attacked, and I saw that set-up before any contradictory posted. That isn't right or good. I never liked for people to possible feel uncomfirtable posting because of how someone pushes their view -like intimidation. No,no, no, lol... I do NOT think my way is the only way or "right" way, simply my take or my slant. I love you guys and your funny and I was on a terror, I admit. >//////< Sorry. I felt like I should balance the scales a bit. I have a thing about liking to see both sides presented fairly. I will play devil's advocate to it!

^ Sinna always deserves cookies. And always says the perfect words in response to pretty much any words, no matter the context.

Again, people missing the point of this question BIG time. I didn't say people couldn't use rape in a plot, like as a background story for a character. I'm talking about using it FOR a couple. Like the rapist gets with the victim. THAT is the topic here, which you have all went off of.

Sinna_Hime_chan: What made my opinions? A little thing called some common sense. Rape = Wrong and don't slut yourself around like a porn star. End of story. Aren't you the one whining to the Fanpop4 about them not allowing sexual images on here? Because YOU are the one being ridiculous with that. This is a kid's sight, you want your porn, go to a different site. Our words are offensive? Atleast WE are showing respect to rape victims by not wanting rape to be used like that. Well sorry for finding rape disgusting and just because YOU don't find it offensive, doesn't mean that it isn't for everyone else. Wanna tell my friend and the people I know who were raped to not find the rape jokes or use of rape in romance are offensive?

Yes, I know what I am about to talk about in my first para is not directly related this question but #idgaf.

and don't slut yourself around like a porn star.

Someone liking sex does NOT mean they are a 'slut', it simply means that they like sex. Someone that consistently sleeps around is not a slut and it doesn't automatically mean that they are disrespect their self. Liking sex =/= being slut

Okay, I'm on topic now.

As for my opinion on this topic, I don't really care. I don't 'support' rape (I mean, why in the hell would anyone support the act of forcing sex onto someone who did not consistent? Something so horrid that it still hurts the victim years after?) But I am fine with the rape being used in any type story and this includes romance stories, considering that this does happen.

fyi, this question is kinda worded horribly.

Sinna deserves a Medal for her good points. Good on her!

@Pumpkin: It's Sinna's own opinion, so don't cause a fight between the both of you on here. This place is not a fighting arena and she might get pissed off by your words. And you call her a Sl*t and yell at her like a Dumbass because of her opinion? Not cool -__-

@Doiwannaknow: I agree. This poll is not good. It just causes trouble for the least of it. Your words are very good for me to agree with. You deserve a Medal too.

Pumpkin, that post was truly abhorrent. Not only did you get into a very personal and absurd attack on Sinna, but you maligned her in a way that only furthers her argument - that you're not here to debate, you're here to make other people look bad for opinions you disagree with. You've spent the majority of your posts here saying that anyone who disagrees with you on the topic of rape in anime is a terrible person with an awful mentality. Now you're calling Sinna out on her sexual behaviors, something of which I'm sure you know nothing about and have no business speaking about in the first place? We're on here to have a serious debate between respectful people. None of what you've done in this post has been respectful.

And by the way, if we're missing the point of the question, then you've obviously worded it badly. The question is about use of rape in a romance story. There's nothing there that insinuates that it has to be between any specific couple or used to create a romance. There's a big difference there. It's like wording your question as "Agree or Disagree: Violence is a good thing to use in romance story" and then suddenly saying that we've got it all wrong after the majority of the arguments have gone by and saying that you were really talking about couples forming through violence. Narrow your topic down from the start. Don't pretend that we should understand what you don't post from the outset - we can't read your mind. And speaking on that, while I find it morally repugnant for someone in any show to fall in love with someone else through a forced act - whether it be violence, rape, imprisonment, anything - I still don't think it's a bad thing to use. I may disagree with it, but there are plenty of people who find this to be morally reasonable. Personally, I don't like anything that screams Stockholm syndrome, but I wouldn't call anyone who says that they like that in a story morally repugnant.

I totally agree with Whiteflame. Pumpkin has been Overreacting too much. She instantly labels anyone who likes this or that a Sadist. She is starting to get downright stupid now and she really needs to shut the hell up. She had no right to assault Sinna like that and she had no right to talk like Trash, saying that Sinna is too much on Porn and all that Crap. I am seriously Not Amused -___-

0_0 I am completely fine guys, and thank you sincerely, I appreciate that so many of you understood my debated points. I am really no good at debates (not my thing & only joined for BP, lol), but I think that as much as any other evil, writing, and FICTION is a tool. It is up to us whether we want to read it. I do not advocate such things as rape in real life and PUMPKINQUEEN, I can talk about that subject, with possibly MORE authority. I guess you missed what I said about that part (I was not being blunt). 'And I am horribly sorry BP T^T about what you shared earlier!

I did not know by the "Agree or Disagree: Rape is a good thing to use in romance story" title, so I took it to mean ANY (couple or strangers, etc... ANY) and it still doesn't change my opinion that it IS a literary tool and that dose can be better or worse, in MY opinion, greatly would depend on the writer & style. I have NOT been a reader of any "trash novels" - no romantica/or ecchi mangas, pulp fiction. erotica fanfic or other, no Penthouse, etc... I am pretty selective in what I read and I want it extremely well written in my point of view/taste.

So whether I got that this question was specifically about romantic couples~ does not change one thing I said. I stand by what I said. LOL. So to me that is a moot point considering I considered that in the first place about "couples." XD

So this is a site for Little Kids? or Kids? 0_0 Whoops. I guess I AM in the wrong place! I guess me & Cruz, BP, BB, WhiteFlame and all the others that are over 21 should LEAVE then... and all those 30 and 40 something people I meet. My bad. I guess we thought Fanpop was for everyone, all sorts of Fandoms, and not to be over-run by one age group (or "type" of persons) when we all are sharing it? WOW. *sarcasm*

Sure, I knew there were A LOT of teens & really young teens etc, into Anime -for one thing, and not as many adults maybe, so I knew I was probably in a minority, but that does NOT mean we cannot like Anime too-or that you are exclusive to Anime OR Fanpop. As an adult I ESPEPICALLy like some of the more adult ones. Still two of my all time favs were Bleach & Cowboy Bebop... I am not sure where the hell you get off talking to ANY "person" like you are doing pumpkinqueen. Wow, lol... really. Go ahead. You may call me a "porn-person" LOL but at least I am not acting like you or I hope I am not sounding so bitter. At least you have "common sense" to know "rape" is a wrong. 0_0 Okay. Good for you. Am I missing something? I think all of us HERE know that too.) I REALLY do not consider that an appropriate way you are debating Pumpkinqueen. Calling me a pornstar.... LOL. Where is my money? I seem to be lacking that paycheck!!

Believe me, I am going to address your arguments Pumpkinqueen. So tempting, sooooo tempting to say certain things, but I am NOT insulted by "you" or your opinion.

More on PQ :"@Sinna_Hime_chan: What made my opinions? A little thing called some common sense. Rape = Wrong and don't slut yourself around like a porn star. End of story. Aren't you the one whining to the Fanpop4 about them not allowing sexual images on here? Because YOU are the one being ridiculous with that." .... Fab4 did not think so. I was not asking them to allow sexual images. Whining? lol No. I was stating an opinion but I have seen YOU whine pumpkinqueen on the Anime club posting questions and other such clubs in comments and answers complaining about ecchi & hentai and sexual stuff in Anime when NO ONE EVER forced you to watch or asked your opinion or said you HAD to like. GEE. BIG difference. THAT is whining. I don't go around complaining about the Anime's I don't like. I think that would be disrespectful.

@Pumpkinqueen why are you calling my gf a "porn star"? I'm sorry but if I were you I would it back and you should REALLY pay close attention to her opinion and LOOK again on what she said. Second you are changing the topic here and you really need to watch the name calling. How is that anything to do with sluttiness? If anyone knows about her morals and sexual behaviors that would be ME! ;) plus she is not a slut and what gives you the right to say that to her? What is wrong with you @Pumpkinqueen this isn't about my gf this is about the poll question not my gf!

I agree with my gf Sinna, Whiteflame, Riley, Doiwannaknow, and BP for what they have said on here and I still can't even believe you even posted that and yelled at Sinna and calling her names wtf @Punpkinqueen -_- you don't know shit!

There is a difference between: Whining/Opinion... Debate/Arguing... Pornstar/Sexual human [whether they have sex or not].

*Because I did not want Fanpop watered down to a solid "G" rating does NOT a pornstar make! It also does not mean I am advocating X-rated material to you or on Fanpop! Papa did NOT think I was whining or out of line... I think you are sorely misinformed on their "opinion" [The censorship article & how I jumped on some things]. They messaged me and expressed their "personal" opinions quite frank & openly. We happen to agree and think alike. Their dilemma is strictly advertizing and business (i.e. money matters) . They must stay objective. Morals and such are not really the issues they are involved in. They have their responsibilities and THEY know what those are...they are not ASKING you about that. I am sure on their end, as far as FP goes, is more like "legal obligations." I have morals too, as others here, & like I am sure the Fab4 do, also. Rape is wrong. Are we not all clear on that? Is it a good thing in a story? For one, we ARE debating & the debate is not on me, FP/Fab4, or you (esp MY sex life, lol which you know NOTHING of) it is on "FICTION."

Shall we discuss your sex life or lack of? No. I personally do not want to & THAT is wayyyy off subject, just like what you said. So you can judge whoever you want, including me, but maybe it would be better to stock to people you know better or your own age & then you can judge those who read about rape in yaoi and ecchi if you want. MAYBE you should lay off others though, especially adults whose personal morals, opinions, and bedroom business YOU need to stay out of. I did not advocate ANYTHING. Really. Your facts are very jumbled.
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I did not say that rape was NOT offensive. Did I say that? I do not think I did. I was speaking of fictional & the writing elements.

As far as your friend/s... maybe someone who knows DOES need to talk to them. I have known more people than you could fathom who have been rape victims, and seen my fair share of things myself. I have never been told by them that I did anything but be of help and comfort and understanding. YOUo are NOT listening PQ.

I think we have a different idea about what a pornstar is. :(
You did not hear me call you a Bitch! oooooohhhhhh.

Thank you EVERYONE who were considerate or chivelrous Gentleman despite being for or against or indifferent, and for speaking up "well" as articulating some very good points- you did so very well. Some of you I have known for quite awhile, others I do not know. I am so impressed and appreciative of the intelligence and manners of some of you!! <333 Thank you.

I am sure I could say more... lol. It wasn't just Pumpkinqueen that said it should be left out of a story and so not to offend rape victims, as well as ridiculous to think it is an acceptable plot device. There was Usernameinvalid, Katherine1517. They are entitled to that opinion but I do not feel like whatever the topic or whatever my view or anyone else (agree or disagree) that they need to word it as if their opinion is absolute & anyone else ridiculous (or can speak for all rape victims or anyone else). It is SIMPLY their opinion, just like anyone-no matter HOW passionate.

Rape Good In Romance? (Well.... How is it ever good? Rape is ANYtime someone is unwilling- even in marriage and where one is tired & the other doesn't want. Sooo~) In writing, I am indifferent.

No problem Sinna. I would have problems with anyone using Ad Hominem attacks on another person on this site, but you certainly don't deserve it for the things you've said, and pumpkinqueen is far too often the perpetrator of very personal attacks. It's one thing to get emotionally involved in an argument, it's quite another to treat someone poorly for picking a side you disagree with.

@Kakukun, Hetalliastella, there may be animes that toss it around loosely, but I do NOT think ANYone here did that. I do not find that to be what anyone said when I read the posts.

@PUMPKINQUEEN who said, "White: No, if you like rape in story in that way and think it's funny, you are a sicko." He NEVER said that. You should be addressing the man who is your senior as Mister Whireflame or WhiteFlame (atleast WF) unless you want me to call you PUMP. lol... You know, how many f'n times do more than one person here have to tell those who are saying this stuff NO ONE THINKS IT IS A JOKE, (or just because we chose 'indifferent'). NO 'personal attacks" on this club, and get off the rl vs. fiction, or even trauma to rl people point of debate. I'm sure there are A LOT of sicko's and closet sickos in many ways in EVERY country. No one else is tossing name-calling or threats thereof around. [SOME] People made their arguments very clear and did so VERY well. Since you can read, then you should stop repeating the stuff about "a joke" "tossed loosely" "bad" -NO ONE IS ARGUING with that. I see that as a done deal here. Mister WhiteFlame was jumped on for something he did NOT say and turned around and did the SAME to me?! Are we in a political debate, lol? No one needs to take this topic "personally". I understand it is a sensitive issue, but we really need to be mindful of "how" we express, TOO, so that others are able to feel free express their opinions. I think it ironic that those here who have been directly affected (& rl) are NOT the ones most heated.

I did not see you @WhiteFlame... (I posted THEN saw you) ~ and I agree.

I also think that this debate is something we have already made our points on enough and it is not needed to repeat what we said.

(Again, Thank you WhiteFlame and I agree with your points. Some people here may not even know about George Carlin & the political/non political humour that he tried to bring to the table in his own fashion. The way that some people are speaking without any care or respect, well *embarrassed* ~ I should not bother this much. Despite age or respect, there should have be MUCH more of a concentrated effort on the part of others to NOT (EVER) speak to ANYONE as some individuals here have chosen to do. It really does exemplify some of what I have already stated my opinion on.

Some people are too young to meet Fanpop member requirements and if they do (barily, or above)- REGARDLESS, they have a responsibility on any site to conduct themselves in a mature & respectful manner. If they cannot do this then they should not be allowed. Simple. If they cannot state their opinions and points without the attacking of others then I suggest Facebook! lol.

Saying I was sluting around? Calling me a Pornstar, that was a pretty lame insult. It also had NOTHINg to do with the topic. I do not feel like I need to defend myself, u///u that was SAD. I just appreciate everyone else who DID say something when I did not see.

No Riley, I am not pissed, I AM embarrassed. I am disappointed that anyone would continue to talk to others without manners or respect and toss about labels and insults so lightly to other people just because they say something (whether they agree or disagreed!). If someone else wants to express themselves and an opinion -that is fine, and hopefully they'll do a bit better job. I have heard enough from PumpkinQueen and anyone else here who wishes to conduct themselves by personal affronts. I have think I made my points. there really is not more I can add. >///<

It's realistic. Yu can't ignore the fact that people get raped. So using it is okay in that sense. But all the risks that come with it should be in order. It can be used to make a good plot with many perspectives. And also sharing knowledge on how sinful that act is. Spreading awareness too.